1. Standard memberno1marauder
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    06 Dec '07 15:41
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Here's a similar trade the Marlins performed with the Red Sox a couple years ago:

    Thanksgiving Day, 2005, Josh Beckett was traded to the Red Sox along with third baseman Mike Lowell and relief pitcher Guillermo Mota for minor league prospects shortstop Hanley Ramírez and pitchers Aníbal Sánchez, Jesús Delgado and Harvey García.

    How did this trade work out for the Sox, hmm?
    The year before Beckett was traded, he was 15-8 with a 3.38 ERA. Prior to that he had pitched 6 games in the postseason and had a 2.11 ERA.

    Last year, Willis was 10-15 with a 5.17 ERA. He has pitched 7 games in the postseason; his ERA in those games is 8.53.

    Here's an apple; there's an orange, Darv.
  2. Subscribershortcircuit
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    06 Dec '07 18:30
    Originally posted by MoneyManMike
    everybody keeps talking about Detroit; wth did Florida get? It seems to me like they got robbed. I mean why on earth would you ever even consider trading Cabrera, 24 years old and a future hall of famer, for farm players. It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe someone with more baseball knowledge can explain this to me because I don't get it. It doesn't make any sense.
    It does make sense for both sides, but for different reasons. I will re-quote my earlier statement:

    I agree with you on face value, but two things you should consider. First, I believe that barring injury, Andrew Miller will be a better pitcher than Dontrelle Willis (although not right now). Cameron Maybin is also very highly thought of, although untested in the show.

    The second thing is that Florida proposed the trade to Detroit EXACTLY as it went down. All Detroit had to do was say yes. Detroit feels they can win now and were willing to mortgage a bit of their future for present time help. Florida wasn't going to win it if they kept both Willis and Cabrera, and they save a considerable amount of bankroll in the process. Furthermore, as they sink lower in the standings, they gain better draft position.

    I think the deal made sense for both sides.
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    06 Dec '07 18:57
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Potential Tigers Line-up:

    Granderson CF
    Polanco 2B
    Ordonez RF
    Cabrera 3B
    Sheffield DH
    Guillen SS
    Rodriguex C
    Thames LF
    Casey 1B

    Verlander SP
    Rogers SP
    Robertson SP
    Willis SP
    Bonderman SP

    Zumaya RP
    Rodney RP
    Jones RP
    Edgar Renteria, not Carlos Guillen. My mistake.
  4. Standard memberno1marauder
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    07 Dec '07 15:09
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    It does make sense for both sides, but for different reasons. I will re-quote my earlier statement:

    I agree with you on face value, but two things you should consider. First, I believe that barring injury, Andrew Miller will be a better pitcher than Dontrelle Willis (although not right now). Cameron Maybin is also very highly thought of, although unt ...[text shortened]... the standings, they gain better draft position.

    I think the deal made sense for both sides.
    Word is that Detroit didn't really want Willis, but that Florida insisted on including him because he's salary arbitration eligible and his prior years might lead to a sizeable increase. Reportedly, Detroit is already trying to dump Willis.
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    07 Dec '07 15:38
    and if they trade Willis they will get a lot of prospects back.
  6. Standard memberno1marauder
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    07 Dec '07 15:43
    Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
    and if they trade Willis they will get a lot of prospects back.
    Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't speak well for his trade value that the Tigers are anxious to get rid of him before he pitches an inning for them (maybe they should keep him as a DH; he hits about as good as most of their overrated lineup).
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    07 Dec '07 16:15
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Word is that Detroit didn't really want Willis, but that Florida insisted on including him because he's salary arbitration eligible and his prior years might lead to a sizeable increase. Reportedly, Detroit is already trying to dump Willis.
    Interesting...

    Other rumour: The Jays have offered Alex Rios to the Giants for pitcher Tim Lincecum!
  8. Subscribershortcircuit
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    07 Dec '07 16:18
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Interesting...

    Other rumour: The Jays have offered Alex Rios to the Giants for pitcher Tim Lincecum!
    The Giants would be nuts to accept that deal unless Linecum is hurt. It is far easier to find good hitters than to find good pitching.
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    07 Dec '07 16:21
    I'd take Willis in a heart beat. People have bad years. The Tigers won't just give him away.

    Beckett (who some people incorrectly think is as good as any pitcher in the majors) had an era over 5 era in a full season in '06 and he obviously was very good last year.

    Andruw Jones had a terrible year. Still signed for 18M/ yr

    Mike Lowell had a terrible year before the Red Sox got him. Everyone said the Red Sox were forced to take his contract. Worked out pretty great.
  10. Subscribershortcircuit
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    07 Dec '07 16:24
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Word is that Detroit didn't really want Willis, but that Florida insisted on including him because he's salary arbitration eligible and his prior years might lead to a sizeable increase. Reportedly, Detroit is already trying to dump Willis.
    It would surprise me if they dumped him unless they got alot for him. I like his upside far more than Kenny Rogers who will probably be gone after this year. Willis would probably flourish under Jimmy Leyland's teaching as well. Plus he will be re-united with Ivan Rodriguez as a battery mate. Pudge makes pitchers better because he calls a great game and is among the best behind the dish. I seriously doubt they will trade him, but stranger things have happened.
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    07 Dec '07 16:26
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    The Giants would be nuts to accept that deal unless Linecum is hurt. It is far easier to find good hitters than to find good pitching.
    Apparently the Jays are more eager to complete this deal than the Giants.
  12. Subscribershortcircuit
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    07 Dec '07 16:26
    Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
    I'd take Willis in a heart beat. People have bad years. The Tigers won't just give him away.

    Beckett (who some people incorrectly think is as good as any pitcher in the majors) had an era over 5 era in a full season in '06 and he obviously was very good last year.

    Andruw Jones had a terrible year. Still signed for 18M/ yr

    Mike Lowe ...[text shortened]... t him. Everyone said the Red Sox were forced to take his contract. Worked out pretty great.
    The Red Sox WERE forced to take Lowell in the deal. One of the greatest forces in history. If you want to see when most down years occur, it is usually the first year of a long term contract. The best year is usually the last year of the contract. Go figure.
  13. Subscribershortcircuit
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    07 Dec '07 16:27
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Apparently the Jays are more eager to complete this deal than the Giants.
    That is understandable, I would like the Jays end of the deal much better.
  14. Standard memberno1marauder
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    07 Dec '07 16:371 edit
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    It would surprise me if they dumped him unless they got alot for him. I like his upside far more than Kenny Rogers who will probably be gone after this year. Willis would probably flourish under Jimmy Leyland's teaching as well. Plus he will be re-united with Ivan Rodriguez as a battery mate. Pudge makes pitchers better because he calls a great game and ...[text shortened]... best behind the dish. I seriously doubt they will trade him, but stranger things have happened.
    An interesting rumour is that the Mets and Tigers are talking about both Pudge and Willis going to NY. http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/05/buzz-willis-offered-to-mets-with-pudge/

    It makes sense; Pudge is rapidly declining as a hitter (9 walks and only 11 HRs and 63 RBI in over 500 ABs) and a catcher (only .309 runners caught stealing last year) while still getting paid $13 million. The Mets need a catcher and don't worry about money as much as the Tigers.
  15. Standard memberno1marauder
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    07 Dec '07 16:46
    Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
    I'd take Willis in a heart beat. People have bad years. The Tigers won't just give him away.

    Beckett (who some people incorrectly think is as good as any pitcher in the majors) had an era over 5 era in a full season in '06 and he obviously was very good last year.

    Andruw Jones had a terrible year. Still signed for 18M/ yr

    Mike Lowe ...[text shortened]... t him. Everyone said the Red Sox were forced to take his contract. Worked out pretty great.
    Mike Lowell was absolute ordinary on the road last year; playing in Fenway gave him inflated numbers overall.

    G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS BA OBP SLG

    Home 77 292 53 109 15 1 14 73 24 34 3 0 .373 .418 .575
    Away 77 297 26 82 22 1 7 47 29 37 0 2 .276 .339 .428
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