Celtics - Heat

Originally posted by MoneyManMike
Bosh, Lebron, and Wade made the rest of the NBA think they could sign them, which in turn affected the other teams' free agency decisions. Whether or not this harmed the teams is irrelevant, but I suspect that the Super Friends did mean to harm them. There is no coincidence that after all the big free agents (Amare, J Johnson, Boozer, Durant, Pierce) rease their chances to get a second championship, but they didn't cheat like Miami.

"Cheating" is violating the rules, so the Miami Three didn't cheat. Free agency is free agency; LeBron and Bosh can do whatever they want within the rules and if someone wants to pay it, that's fine.

Originally posted by no1marauder
"Cheating" is violating the rules, so the Miami Three didn't cheat. Free agency is free agency; LeBron and Bosh can do whatever they want within the rules and if someone wants to pay it, that's fine.

Of course you're right yet it's still distasteful to manipulate the sytem thus!

Heat got humiliated, although I doubt there's humbling this bunch. I enjoyed every minute of it!

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
Heat got humiliated, although I doubt there's humbling this bunch. I enjoyed every minute of it!

The Bulls' big men played impressively both on defense and crashing the offensive boards. This is something the Celts didn't have the personnel to do.

Originally posted by no1marauder
The Bulls' big men played impressively both on defense and crashing the offensive boards. This is something the Celts didn't have the personnel to do.

Indeed an impressive performance from a young group looking hungry. Bulls have only one superstar, but the heart of lions. Their hustle was awesome. I indeed think Miami celebrated prematurely and it seems like they may have jinxed themselves! That dunk by Taj Gibson over Wade said it all. The second dunk off a an errant three pointer will be in the highlight reels for a while!

Originally posted by no1marauder
"Cheating" is violating the rules, so the Miami Three didn't cheat. Free agency is free agency; LeBron and Bosh can do whatever they want within the rules and if someone wants to pay it, that's fine.

The Miami Three could discuss free agency starting on July 1, 2010. Anything prior to that date would be against the rules. Now I don't know when they made the agreement to team up, but I suspect it happened before July 1st. During the Miami 'welcome party,' Bosh made some sketchy comments about the Three's behind-the-scenes dealings. Start watching the video at the 00:45 mark:

YouTube&feature=related

Based on the way the Three conducted themselves during early July 2010, their matching contracts, and Bosh's comments, I find it very unlikely that they didn't collude with each other before free agency started. What do you think they were text messaging each other while being wine and dined by all the other teams in the NBA? I don't think so.

Originally posted by MoneyManMike
The Miami Three could discuss free agency starting on July 1, 2010. Anything prior to that date would be against the rules. Now I don't know when they made the agreement to team up, but I suspect it happened before July 1st. During the Miami 'welcome party,' Bosh made some sketchy comments about the Three's behind-the-scenes dealings. Start watching ...[text shortened]... ch other while being wine and dined by all the other teams in the NBA? I don't think so.

The negotiating phase between players and teams starts July 1st. I know of no rule that says players can't discuss between themselves their preferences on who they'd like to play for. It's up to the teams to sign them; no "agreement" between the players would be binding on the teams.

Originally posted by no1marauder
The negotiating phase between players and teams starts July 1st. I know of no rule that says players can't discuss between themselves their preferences on who they'd like to play for. It's up to the teams to sign them; no "agreement" between the players would be binding on the teams.

Regardless, we all agree we dislike this self-crowning, full of themselves bunch unable to handle real hustle from hungry players. I'd always rather have the emerging superstar win it all than this crybaby bunch! However, my heart is with Dirk Nowitski and the Mavs. I hope they continue playing at their high level and win it all. But if Chitown wins I won't cry. Ties to both cities!

Originally posted by no1marauder
The negotiating phase between players and teams starts July 1st. I know of no rule that says players can't discuss between themselves their preferences on who they'd like to play for. It's up to the teams to sign them; no "agreement" between the players would be binding on the teams.

National Basketball Players Association - Collective Bargaining Agreement (2005)

Article XIII - Circumvention

Section 1. General Prohibitions. [omitted]

Section 2. No Unauthorized Agreements.

(a) At no time shall there be any agreements or transactions of any kind (whether disclosed or undisclosed to the NBA), express or implied, oral or written, or promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements, assurances of intent, or understandings of any kind (whether disclosed or undisclosed to the NBA), between a player (or any person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, such player) and any Team (or Team Affiliate):

(i) concerning any future Renegotiation, Extension, or amendment of an existing Player Contract, or entry into a new Player Contract;

(ii) except as permitted by this Agreement or as set forth in a Uniform Player Contract (provided that the Team has not intentionally delayed submitting such Uniform Player Contract for approval by the NBA), involving compensation or consideration of any kind to be paid,

(iii) involving an investment or business opportunity to be furnished or made available to the player, or any person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of the player.

(b) In addition to the foregoing, it shall be a violation of this Section 2 for any Team (or Team Affiliate) or any player (or any person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, such player) to attempt to enter into or to intentionally solicit any agreement, transaction, promise, undertaking, representation, commitment, inducement, assurance of intent or understanding that would be prohibited by Section 2(a) above.

(c) A violation of Section 2(a) above may be proven by direct or circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, evidence that a Player Contract or any term or provision thereof cannot rationally be explained in the absence of conduct violative of Section 2(a).

(d) In any proceeding brought before the System Arbitrator pursuant to this Section 2, no adverse inference shall be drawn against the party initiating such proceeding because that party, when it first suspected or believed that a violation of Section 2 may have occurred, deferred the initiation of such proceeding until it had further reason to believe that such a violation had occurred.

(e) A player will not be found to have committed a violation of Section 2(a)(ii) above if the violation is the Team’s intentional delay in submitting a Uniform Player Contract to the NBA and this was done without the player’s knowledge.

Section 3. Penalties.

(a) Upon a finding of a violation of Section 1...[omitted]

(b) Upon a finding of a violation of Section 2 above by the System Arbitrator, but only following the conclusion of any appeal to the Appeals Panel, the Commissioner shall be
authorized to:

(i) impose a fine of up to $5,000,000 on any Team found to have committed such violation (50% of which shall be payable to the NBA, and 50% of which shall be payable to the NBPA-Selected Charitable Organization);

(ii) direct the forfeiture of draft picks;

(iii) when both the player (or any person or entity acting with authority on behalf of such player) and the Team (or Team Affiliate) are found to have committed such violation, (A) void any Player Contract, or any Renegotiation, Extension, or amendment of a Player Contract, between such player and such Team, (B) impose a fine of up to $100,000 on any player (50% of which shall be payable to the NBA, and 50% of which shall be payable to the NBPA-Selected Charitable Organization), and/or (C) prohibit any future Player Contract, or any Renegotiation, Extension, or amendment of a Player Contract, between such player and such Team;

(iv) suspend for up to one (1) year any Team personnel found to have
willfully engaged in such violation; and/or

(v) void any other transaction or agreement found to have violated Section
2 above.

[remaining text omitted]

The complete NBPA CBA can be found at: http://www.nbpa.org/cba/2005

Originally posted by MoneyManMike
National Basketball Players Association - Collective Bargaining Agreement (2005)

Article XIII - Circumvention

Section 1. General Prohibitions. [omitted]

Section 2. No Unauthorized Agreements.

(a) At no time shall there be any agreements or transactions of any kind (whether disclosed or undisclosed to the NBA), express or implied, oral or w ...[text shortened]... [remaining text omitted]

The complete NBPA CBA can be found at: http://www.nbpa.org/cba/2005

between a player (or any person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, such player) and any Team (or Team Affiliate):

(Emphasis added)

Yup what I said.

Other Applicable Sections:

Article II - Uniform Player Contract

Section 14. Moratorium Period.

Except as permitted in the next sentence, notwithstanding any other provision of this Agreement, no player and Team may enter into any oral or written agreement concerning terms and conditions of the player’s employment, or reduce any such agreement to writing in the form of a Uniform Player Contract or amendment, during the Moratorium Period. The following shall be permitted during the Moratorium Period: (i) a player may accept any Required Tender, Qualifying Offer, or “Maximum Qualifying Offer” (as defined in Article XI, Section 4(a)(ii)) that is outstanding; (ii) a player and a Team may negotiate over the terms and conditions of a Player Contract or Offer Sheet that may be entered into following the conclusion of the Moratorium Period; (iii) a First Round Pick and the Team that holds his draft rights may enter into a Rookie Scale Contract; and (iv) a player and a Team may enter into a Player Contract, not to exceed two (2) Seasons in length, that provides for a Salary for each Salary Cap Year equal to the Minimum Player Salary applicable to the player (with no Unlikely Bonuses).

Article I - Definitions

Section 1. Definitions

(y) “Free Agent” means: (i) a Veteran Free Agent; (ii) a Rookie Free Agent; (iii) a Veteran whose Player Contract has been terminated in accordance with the NBA waiver procedure; or (iv) a player whose last Player Contract was a 10-Day Contract and who either completed the Contract by rendering the playing services called for thereunder or was released early from such Contract.

(ii) “Moratorium Period” means:

With respect to the 2010-11 Salary Cap Year, the period July 1, 2010
through July 7, 2010.

(jj) The term “negotiate” means, with respect to a player or his representatives on the one hand, and a Team or its representatives on the other hand, to engage in any written or oral
communication relating to the possible employment, or terms of employment, of such player by such Team as a basketball player, regardless of who initiates such communication.

(hhh) “Salary Cap Year” means the period from July 1 through the following June 30.

(lll) “Team Affiliate” means:

i. any individual or entity who or which (directly or indirectly) holds an ownership interest in a Team (other than ownership of publicly-traded securities constituting less than 5% of the ownership interests in a Team);

ii. any individual or entity who or which (directly or indirectly) controls, is controlled by or is under common control with, or who or which is an entity affiliated with or an individual related to, a Team;

iii. any individual or entity who or which (directly or indirectly) controls, is controlled by or is under common control with, or who or which is an entity affiliated with or an individual related to, an individual or entity described in Section 1 (zzz)(i) or (ii) above; or

iv. any entity in which 10% or more of the ownership interests are held (directly or indirectly) by an individual or entity who or which holds (directly or indirectly) 10% or more of the ownership interests in a Team or in an entity described in Section 1(zzz)(ii) above.

For the purposes of this Section 1(lll): an individual shall only be deemed to be “related to” a Team or another individual or entity if such individual is an officer, director or executive employee of such Team or entity, or is a member of such individual’s immediate family; and “controls” or “is controlled by” shall include (without limitation) the circumstance in which an individual or a Team or entity has or can exercise effective control.

(qqq) “Uniform Player Contract” or “Player Contract” or “Contract” means the standard form of written agreement between a person and a Team required for use in the NBA by Article II, pursuant to which such person is employed by such Team as a professional basketball player.

Originally posted by no1marauder
between [b]a player (or any person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, such player) and any Team (or Team Affiliate):

(Emphasis added)

Yup what I said.[/b]

(b) In addition to the foregoing, it shall be a violation of this Section 2 for any Team (or Team Affiliate) or any player (or any person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, such player) to attempt to enter into or to intentionally solicit any agreement, transaction, promise, undertaking, representation, commitment, inducement, assurance of intent or understanding that would be prohibited by Section 2(a) above.

In other words, players can't "recruit" other players unless they are free agents.

Originally posted by MoneyManMike
(b) In addition to the foregoing, it shall be a violation of this Section 2 for any Team (or Team Affiliate) or any player (or any person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, such player) to attempt to enter into or to intentionally solicit any agreement, transaction, promise, undertaking, representation, commitmen ...[text shortened]... above.

In other words, players can't "recruit" other players unless they are free agents.

You don't read very well.

In addition to the foregoing, it shall be a violation of this Section 2 for any Team (or Team Affiliate) or any player (or any person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, such player) to attempt to enter into or to intentionally solicit any agreement, transaction, promise, undertaking, representation, commitment, inducement, assurance of intent or understanding that would be prohibited by Section 2(a) above.

That's between a player and a team. Player A can say to Player B all day: "Wouldn't it be a great idea if we both signed with Team X?" There's nothing binding between them or between A and/or B and X because of their conversation.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You don't read very well.

In addition to the foregoing, it shall be a violation of this Section 2 for any Team (or Team Affiliate) or any player (or any person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, such player) to attempt to enter into or to intentionally solicit any agreement, transaction, promise, un ...[text shortened]... 's nothing binding between them or between A and/or B and X because of their conversation.

Lets try a hypothetical:

Lebron, Wade, and Bosh meet privately on June 20th, 2010. They agree that they will all sign with the Miami Heat in July. Wade acts as a "Team Affiliate" for the Miami Heat since he is still under contract with them, and thus under their control. Lebron and Bosh act as players since they are still under an NBA contract with separate teams. Because a Team Affiliate and players started negotiating before the July Moratorium (July 1-7), the agreement is unauthorized and subject to penalties.

Geez guys! This has turned into quite the pissing contest. How about talkin' some hoops instead of front office stuff? Last nights incredible performance by Dirk was one for the ages! Why I even forgot he was white! What an awesome player he is. I was afraid the rust might set in after nine days layover. Did look stiff at first, but shook off the rest effectively indeed. OKC was a worthy challenger, but I don't see them beating the Mavs.