England - the solution

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it was you who made the comparison, i am only pointing out the flaw in it. hopefully you shall slip down the ranks and have to play some decent teams to qualify for a change.

Look at Scotland when they had decent sides ..
Bremner ,Lorimer ,Archie Gemmel ,Lou Macari ,Joe Jordan ,Bob Wilson ,Kenny Burns etc,etc . They all played in successfull English teams and it reflected on the Scottish national side . Nearly all the top teams in England had at least three or four Scots in their side .Not now ,and look at Scotland now !!!! Look at how many English players are playing in the pl ,not many in the top teams !!! Look at the sorry state of England now ,we will slip down the ranks and have to play top side's to qualify thats for sure !!!

Originally posted by phil3000
Look at Scotland when they had decent sides ..
Bremner ,Lorimer ,Archie Gemmel ,Lou Macari ,Joe Jordan ,Bob Wilson ,Kenny Burns etc,etc . They all played in successfull English teams and it reflected on the Scottish national side . Nearly all the top teams in England had at least three or four Scots in their side .Not now ,and look at Scotland now !!!! Loo ...[text shortened]... land now ,we will slip down the ranks and have to play top side's to qualify thats for sure !!!

you know Phil, i would really like to contrast the difference, look at Arsenal, an EPL team with how many English players? (ok its an extreme i know) Look at Bayern Munich, from a squad of twenty four they have fourteen German nationals, including as you are aware, Lahm, Ottl, Schweinsteiger, Muller and Klose and many others. Is it not truly astounding that this should be the case, in comparison?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you know Phil, i would really like to contrast the difference, look at Arsenal, an EPL team with how many English players? (ok its an extreme i know) Look at Bayern Munich, from a squad of twenty four they have fourteen German nationals, including as you are aware, Lahm, Ottl, Schweinsteiger, Muller and Klose and many others. Is it not truly astounding that this should be the case, in comparison?

Thats the whole point Robbie !!
( how did i miss Kenny Dalgish from my list ? 🙄 )
I know it's off beat ,and you probably wont like my question but here goes !!
And i mean this most sincerely ..(hughie green style ) ..Why didn't Alan Hansen play more games for Scotland ?
i know you dislike him ,but he was a world class defender !

Originally posted by phil3000
Thats the whole point Robbie !!
( how did i miss Kenny Dalgish from my list ? 🙄 )
I know it's off beat ,and you probably wont like my question but here goes !!
And i mean this most sincerely ..(hughie green style ) ..Why didn't Alan Hansen play more games for Scotland ?
i know you dislike him ,but he was a world class defender !

it was because he had more allegiance to his club than he did the national side, the treacherous dog, that he was (he refused to play friendlies), so when Fergie took over after the sudden death of Jock Stein, he left him out, for he had no commitment to the cause. He refers to England as 'we', tell me mate, what part of bonnie England does he come from, for i cannot quite place his accent! All in all hes a scoundrel, regardless of what he did for Partick thistle or Liverpool. Plus he makes us Scotsmen appear thick, which may very well be the case, but we dont need it advertised on national television, he should read more and expand his vocabulary. There are much better pundits than him, Pat Nevin, Gordon McQueen and even Ally M'Coist.

Originally posted by trev33
i didn't say the germans pass the ball around like the spainish, i said they have the same technical ability due to good coaching at a very young age. unlike the british and irish players.

schwiensteiger is technically a better player than gerrard yes, gerrard is a better player on certain other aspects but if i was looking for one player to play the play ...[text shortened]... gerrard was just as good if not better, it's hard to compare people of different positions.

Schweinsteiger and Gerrard are different players but they are on a par with each other technically. I haven't seen Schweinsteiger do any tricks or major step overs , he hasn't done any marseille turns or cruyff turns. All he has done is play confidently ina system that he understands perfectly. Gerrard didn't know what to do and was a victim of the endemic lack of confidence in the England Camp.

Name me one thing that Schweinsteiger has done that technically Gerrard couldn't do. Infact , spread that around the Engalnd team and the german team in comparison.

Here's my point. If Gerrard et al were German and were playing for germany under Lobe in a organised system they understood , do you not think they could play really well?

Try and understand. Good players in a bad system with no confidence in the camp cannot perform. They cannot. It's a story as old as football itself. It's a team game , not an individual game. The Germans have a clear , simple and established system of play that breeds confidence in the players. It's that simple.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Schweinsteiger and Gerrard are different players but they are on a par with each other technically. I haven't seen Schweinsteiger do any tricks or major step overs , he hasn't done any marseille turns or cruyff turns. All he has done is play confidently ina system that he understands perfectly. Gerrard didn't know what to do and was a victim of the en and established system of play that breeds confidence in the players. It's that simple.

Name me one thing that Schweinsteiger has done that technically Gerrard couldn't do

beat three players, get to the bye line, assist a goal. There you have three things! Give it up Knighty, the Germans are in a different class, your insistence that Gerrard is special, or even proficient is nonsense, he would not make the Bayern Munich team.

Cruyff once said about van Gaal when he was succesfull with Ajax in the mid 90's that he ruined the young teams and their players by forcing them into some system. He said it was devastating to creativity and free minds on the pitch. The same Brasil is accusted of.
Looking at Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard it might be the same problem; they only florish in certain systems and have no clue outside that box.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Name me one thing that Schweinsteiger has done that technically Gerrard couldn't do

beat three players, get to the bye line, assist a goal. There you have three things! Give it up Knighty, the Germans are in a different class, your insistence that Gerrard is special, or even proficient is nonsense, he would not make the Bayern Munich team.

I have seen Gerrard do these things in a game and much more. I have seen him beat players and put magnificent crosses in . I also know for a fact that Gerrard can strike a shot at goal better than Schweinsteiger.

You are obsessed with the idea that because Gerrard didn't do these things at this WC and Scwheiny did that must logically mean that Schweiny is a more technically gifted and better footballer. Gerrard in his pomp would fetch much more on the market that Schweiny. Money doesn't lie.

I agree the German TEAM (I repeat TEAM) were different class. But to put this down to some silly idea that they have radically better individuals is errant nonsense and it's simply not born out by the facts and evidence.

On the evidence of the world cup you would think the England players were lower league in comparison , but then if you fell for that one you would be showing a shocking level of knowledge of how football works and why good players can look bad in a bad system. Maybe this knowledge is beyond you?

EDIT - BTW- You said that Schweiny beat 3 players and then made an assist etc etc but go back and have another look at it. The defending was very poor , one player he "beat" was a forward who just stuck his leg out tamely. It was hardly a mazy run like Messi. I think I could have got passed two of the Argie players myself. Interestingly , when the Germans came up against a class defence in Spain they didn't look quite so good did they? What happened to Schweiny's runs?