1. Standard memberSeitse
    Doug Stanhope
    That's Why I Drink
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    29 May '07 13:23
    Only extremely great or out-of-this-world great?

    Aupa Madrid! 😵
  2. Joined
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    29 May '07 19:44
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Only extremely great or [b]out-of-this-world great?

    Aupa Madrid! 😵[/b]
    This is the Man Utd and Holland reject? Not some other bloke?
  3. LA
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    30 May '07 06:11
    Originally posted by petrosianpupil
    This is the Man Utd and Holland reject? Not some other bloke?
    No way.

    I once thought he was.

    But if you take away the penalty kicks how many goals has he scored this season?

    Also he doesn't link up play at all and just waits for the ball to be put on his head or waits in the box for it.
    For Manchester Unted it was like playing with 9 outfield players most of the time with Van Nisterooy in attack.

    Beckham is the reason I think Reaal are looking so much better and Robhinio seems to be finding his feet.
    Beckhams perfromances have been excellent and have really made the differance for Real.
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    30 May '07 10:28
    Originally posted by Rooney Once a Blue
    No way.

    I once thought he was.

    But if you take away the penalty kicks how many goals has he scored this season?

    Also he doesn't link up play at all and just waits for the ball to be put on his head or waits in the box for it.
    For Manchester Unted it was like playing with 9 outfield players most of the time with Van Nisterooy in attack.
    ...[text shortened]... feet.
    Beckhams perfromances have been excellent and have really made the differance for Real.
    Didn't you put Beckhqam in your over rated list?

    I think that Fergie, who above all managers can handle big stars, lost it big time by selling Beckham.

    He gave Robson, Keane, Cantona special freedom, but he had brought Beckham up from a skinny kid who was considered nothing compared to Giggs and even that loser Sharpe when they were young. He couldn't adjust mentally to the fact that Beckham knew his value and worth.

    Utd really suffered for his loss, they have only now got it back. even now Chelsea and Milan have shown the problem with Ronaldo's inability to pass early; they double up on him and against the best defences he loses the ball time and again.

    Beckham is the best long passer England have ever had, including Hoddle. His crosses are a nightmare for defenders and at his peak he was one of the fittest England players ever.

    Time and time again the media hacks who know nothing try and make a name by knocking our true stars. They caused Shearer and Scholes to retire early and make playing for England a truly thankless task. Every great manager tries to get his players to enjoy playing, an impossible job with our press.
  5. Standard memberSeitse
    Doug Stanhope
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    30 May '07 10:30
    Certainly Van the Man is the kind of attacker that needs someone like Becks to serve him the ball, but that's a quality in its own. Not every attacker has the nose to be there, on the right place and time, to push the ball. He may not be a full striker, but one particular kind of striker that teams need. A tank, like they say in Spain.
  6. Joined
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    30 May '07 11:45
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Certainly Van the Man is the kind of attacker that needs someone like Becks to serve him the ball, but that's a quality in its own. Not every attacker has the nose to be there, on the right place and time, to push the ball. He may not be a full striker, but one particular kind of striker that teams need. A tank, like they say in Spain.
    Good point.

    Van the man and Fergie fell out big time over Van making just that point to the press when, post Beckham, he wasn't scoring as many.
  7. Standard memberSeitse
    Doug Stanhope
    That's Why I Drink
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    30 May '07 11:49
    Originally posted by petrosianpupil
    Good point.

    Van the man and Fergie fell out big time over Van making just that point to the press when, post Beckham, he wasn't scoring as many.
    Yeah, he is definitively dependant in a crack midfielder, just like Becks is playing right now.

    I guess it speaks great about Becks, Robinho and Guti (more than Van himself) the fact that the Pichichi, the top scorer award, is almost in his hands.
  8. Joined
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    30 May '07 11:53
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Yeah, he is definitively dependant in a crack midfielder, just like Becks is playing right now.

    I guess it speaks great about Becks, Robinho and Guti (more than Van himself) the fact that the Pichichi, the top scorer award, is almost in his hands.
    I want real to win because of Beckham, but what do you think of the remaining games?

    Will Real continue this great run?
  9. Standard memberSeitse
    Doug Stanhope
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    30 May '07 12:12
    Originally posted by petrosianpupil
    I want real to win because of Beckham, but what do you think of the remaining games?

    Will Real continue this great run?
    Uf, my friend, that is the one million dollar question. Sevilla is 2 points behind, so they can make if and only if both Real and Barca lose one match, both. Very unlikely; so my 1st guess is that the league is either for Real or Barca.

    Now, I've been following the Spanish sport diaries and it is amazing how stupid Etoo was making declarations to the press in the sense that "his best friend in the dressing rooms was the guy carrying the bags" and some stuff like that. It was a bomb, I think, for the harmony of the players and the tension between Etoo and Rikjard because of Etoos' friendship with Laporta, the president of the club.

    My comment is quite out of the football issue, because I think Real and Barca will win BOTH their remaining 2 matches... BUT if one of them will be defeated, it will be Barca because of the non-football issues... however, Real is the one with the hardest match, which is Villarreal, for the simple reason that they are fighting to get into the UEFA cup through the 6th position (which Atletico de Madrid is currently holding with teeth and nails)... uf, hard to say, but I think Real will stay in the 1st place just as they are right now.

    How do you see it?
  10. Standard memberRagnorak
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    30 May '07 12:30
    Originally posted by petrosianpupil
    Good point.

    Van the man and Fergie fell out big time over Van making just that point to the press when, post Beckham, he wasn't scoring as many.
    Ruud and Fergie fell out when Ferguson put him on the bench for the Carling Cup Final and he lost the plot... "I expect to start the next game" was a quote from him that I read at the time, and I remember thinking that he's fecked now. That's an open challenge to Ferguson, which he doesn't like, especially considering United were playing much better with the pacey and free scoring Saha up front.

    I liked Ruud's goals, but he was too selfish, and teams like United can only be a success if players can sit on the bench for a couple of games without losing the plot. He also had completely the wrong attitude when he came off the bench, looking like he couldn't care.

    His play at the time didn't really suit United either, so I think it was decent business to offload him. Fergie wants to play with speed up front now, something which Ruud couldn't offer.

    D
  11. LA
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    31 May '07 05:461 edit
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Certainly Van the Man is the kind of attacker that needs someone like Becks to serve him the ball, but that's a quality in its own. Not every attacker has the nose to be there, on the right place and time, to push the ball. He may not be a full striker, but one particular kind of striker that teams need. A tank, like they say in Spain.
    Very good point.

    With the right kind of players around him Van Nistelrooy is the best striker there is.

    For Mancester United thought it was the correct thing to do to sell him because after we lost Beckham, Van Nistelrooy was not the same force.
  12. LA
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    31 May '07 06:06
    Originally posted by petrosianpupil
    Didn't you put Beckhqam in your over rated list?

    I think that Fergie, who above all managers can handle big stars, lost it big time by selling Beckham.

    He gave Robson, Keane, Cantona special freedom, but he had brought Beckham up from a skinny kid who was considered nothing compared to Giggs and even that loser Sharpe when they were young. He co ...[text shortened]... ry great manager tries to get his players to enjoy playing, an impossible job with our press.
    I did put Beckham in my most overrated list.
    He was also my 2nd favourate player until about 2001 (Keano obviously the best).

    I watched most of Beckams home games in the Stretford Lane End at Old Trafford.

    Until 2001 Beckham was amazing and consistently played superb football.
    From 2001 onwards though, his play became patchy, sometimes exceptional sometimes not so good.

    He also started to become unmanageable, in one game he started on the bench and when brought on in the 2nd half, he set up a goal within 10 minutes with a trademark cross.
    He then does not celebrate but turns towards the bench and stirs at Sir Alex with his hands on his hips.
    Maybe Beckham came on with 20 minutes left and had fresh legs, maybe Fergie knew what he was doing.

    Also Beckham was becoming a distraction to the club and was in the press more for a visit to America or a TV advert than his play for Manchester United.

    Also how many free kicks did Beckham score for United in his last season?
    Can you tell me? I know and it was in the last game of the season!

    Sir Alex did it again, he got 25m for Beckham at 28, used 12m of it to buy Ronaldo, not bad when considering how to develop a team in the long term view.
    ie. Take a bloddy nose to land a killer blow.

    So I would say overall Beckham was really good, exceptional at times, but overrated.
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