Is Big Ben now at the Brady/Manning level?

Originally posted by no1marauder
I meant a trial would be nice BEFORE people declare that Big Ben (or anybody for that matter) is a "sleazy raping molester".

OK. I thought you were demanding a trial. Indeed I'd rather have a trial before calling anyone a rapist. That i a pretty awful accusation and should never be bandied about lightly! I am sorry I misunderstood.

What did I say about Big Ben?

Originally posted by Eladar
OK, I'll insert an NFL team instead. The fact is that a quarterback is only as good as the other 10 guys on the field and the coaching staff allows him to be. Surround a great quarterback with bad coaches and bad players (even simply by NFL standards) and a quarterback isn't going to look very good.

Sam Bradford??? I think he just won offensive rookie of the year this season, even though he went to a crappy college.

I don't think much of the Rams, but he seemed to do pretty well, don't you think?
He nearly got them into the playoffs.

Or were you inferring that Mike Tomlin is a bad coach (won one Super Bowl and been to two in four years at the helm)

Or is it that the Pittsburgh team has no talent?

Based on you analysis, Bart Starr sucked as a QB.

Originally posted by Eladar
What did I say about Big Ben?

Like it or not, his playoff winning percentage as a QB was only bested by Bart Starr prior to last night. I am not sure if anyone passed him.

Peyton Manning is acknowledged as a "can't miss" HOF'er, but his record in the playoffs is not good at all. Is this because the Colts team sucks? Their record year in and year out seems to indicate otherwise.

Tom Brady was a unanimous MVP winner this season. Were the Patriots in the Super Bowl? Did they make it out of the first round of the playoffs?

Big Ben had a horrible night last night....and yet, Pittsburgh nearly won the game.

Now....what WERE you saying???

I was saying that Big Ben is only considered great because he plays for a great team. Make him the quarterback of a team that isn't based on a great defense and great running game and he becomes a very average quarterback.

As you pointed out, he can have a terrible game and the Steelers will still have a great chance of winning a game even against the very best in the NFL. That just goes to show my point.

Originally posted by Eladar
I was saying that Big Ben is only considered great because he plays for a great team. Make him the quarterback of a team that isn't based on a great defense and great running game and he becomes a very average quarterback.

As you pointed out, he can have a terrible game and the Steelers will still have a great chance of winning a game even against the very best in the NFL. That just goes to show my point.

Well, I would say that would be true of most QB's, wouldn't you?

If you have no talent around you, it would be hard to excel.

You know, Joe Namath, statistically was not a great QB.
That Jets team was not really a great team.
But coupled together that one season, they performed very well together.

The reason given for Big Ben being an elite quarterback is simply because the Steelers are a very good team. The team does not make the quarterback.

True a quarterback surrounded by great players can make him shine as a quarterback. In this case, even with the Steeler's talent, Big Ben doesn't have great numbers. It isn't the number of yards that he puts up or numbers of touchdown passes that people look to for saying he's a great QB that should be in the hall of fame.

It is the fact that his team wins that makes him a great QB. If you are going to judge a QB, then judge the QB on his numbers. If you really want to get in depth, then judge how well he's done given the talent that surrounds him.


In other words:

Judging a QB based on wins and losses (Even Super Bowl) -> Poor football IQ
Judging a QB based on his numbers -> Average football IQ
Judging a QB based on numbers and what he had to work with -> Superior football IQ

Originally posted by Eladar
The reason given for Big Ben being an elite quarterback is simply because the Steelers are a very good team. The team does not make the quarterback.

True a quarterback surrounded by great players can make him shine as a quarterback. In this case, even with the Steeler's talent, Big Ben doesn't have great numbers. It isn't the number of yards that he put ...[text shortened]... ball IQ
Judging a QB based on numbers and what he had to work with -> Superior football IQ

I guess indeed it was all smoke and mirrors. His passer rating for the playoffs was dismal and he played awful in the SB! I think he can bounce back, but I doubt it. People are learning fast how to defense him and doing a great job. He was way outplayed by Rodgers! He may still end up in HOF simply because Steelers are a young team and should remain competitive.