Originally posted by CrowleyI'm not going down the road of disagreeing with you on this one. Statistically you are right he really is just that "a true all rounder" top of the lists.
I wait with baited breath for Jacques to get 3 more wickets in this series so he can reach the amazing milestone of the being the first player, in the history of the game, to score 10,000 runs and take 250 wickets in tests; 10,000 runs and take 250 wickets in ODIs and have a combined total of over 250 catches.
He has already proven himself the greatest al ...[text shortened]... scorers before retiring.
What an amazing player and an inspiration to all cricket lovers.
Originally posted by Tirau Dan"Won't ever get in the category of Sobers with Bat"? You are mistaken, buddy.
I'm not going down the road of disagreeing with you on this one. Statistically you are right he really is just that "a true all rounder" top of the lists.
Kallis wouldn't get in my world 12 as he doesn't have the "x factor" ability to dominate with bat or ball and won't ever get in the category of Sobers with Bat or Hadlee with Ball.
One day we'll ...[text shortened]... beefy Botham perhaps. Sobers Botham and Hadlee would make my world 12 ahead or Jacques.
Originally posted by CrowleyI do actually agree but the great fire-workers of the ball didn't go out regularly, they were also very capable of playing long big innings.When sobers came out spectators were thrilled.
"Won't ever get in the category of Sobers with Bat"? You are mistaken, buddy.
He has basically the same record as Sobers with the bat. Sure, it was never all fireworks with Kallis, but he's just as dependable a batsmen as Sobers ever was.
Some people like spakly fireworks, but all fireworks needs glue to keep them together before the fuse is lit. Jacques n a day.
I'll stick with Jacques and his boring 60 or 70 odd you can basically bank on.
Originally posted by Tirau DanStart your own thread if you want to waffle on about the 'good olde days' and emotionally charged BS 'dream teams' - This thread is about the greatest cricketer to ever walk onto a grassy oval.
I do actually agree but the great fire-workers of the ball didn't go out regularly, they were also very capable of playing long big innings.When sobers came out spectators were thrilled.
The last time we had this thread I think we went through some dream teams... quite a bit of fun. Pick a touring 13. Kallis in her? not in my book..sorry
1. Ba ...[text shortened]... icket.. in for tendulkar)
13 Richard Hadlee (moist air and a bit of green.. in for Tendulkar)
Originally posted by CrowleyYou once listed him as greatest all rounder now it's greatest ever!!???
Start your own thread if you want to waffle on about the 'good olde days' and emotionally charged BS 'dream teams' - This thread is about the greatest cricketer to ever walk onto a grassy oval.
Kallis has mastered the art of cricket, not just one speciality as many of the names on your list.
The only people not thrilled when Kallis strides out are his opponents.
Originally posted by Tirau DanAbsolutely. The only all-rounder to get in the same class as Kallis was Sobers, with Botham probably in third.
You once listed him as greatest all rounder now it's greatest ever!!???
He's a wonderful cricketer, enjoy you stats and notions but you don't need to get all hoity toity and start blurting rubbish about waffling on about the days of old.
Are you quantifying now by saying he's the greatest present or are you saying he belongs in a team with the other in Tendulkar down under.. a superb batsman possessed with the x factor... a great player.
Originally posted by AussieGYou all seem to miss the point.
I tend to agree with Tirau Dan on this one. Sure, Kallis is statistically up there with the best in the game but he doesn't have that "X-factor" (as he puts it) Kallis has never been one to tear a bowling attack apart with the willow nor destroy a batting team with the ball. Also, from what I have seen, has never batted with the teams best interests in mind ...[text shortened]... .
I will be interested in the examples you provide which disagree with my points here
Originally posted by CrowleyI've loved cricket all my life from drawing cartwheels of Colin Cowdrey and Geoff Boycott batting against the windies on those gravel mine fields as a kid; to just this week watching the great Sachin Tendulkars last tour of NZ.
You all seem to miss the point.
Whatever form of the game and whether it be fielding, batting or bowling - Kallis can do it and do it better than most other players.
Sure, he is not a frontline bowler, but 250 wickets in both formats? That is pretty damn good.
He has never been a very aggressive batsman - although he seems to be re-inventing himself ...[text shortened]... game in our time, so enjoy the ride fellas - you'll be telling your grand-kids about this!
Originally posted by Tirau DanAgain, you seem to be to set in your ways. I'd pick a team around Kallis, because now you can get more aggressive top order batsmen, as you know you can back him to hold an innings together.
Kallis does not quite make it into the top five with bat and certainly not with ball. As an all rounder he certainly is in the mould of Garfield Sobers as a batsman who bowls well but I would demand that my all-rounder be someone who can totally dominate. As a batting all-rounder his job would be to be the teams accelerator by pinch hitting and maybe hold ...[text shortened]... ompetitiveness.
I wouldn't want someone who puts his personal stats before the team.
Originally posted by Tirau DanAbsolutely. And unlike you and others who yearn to emotionally charged reverie in the days of yore, I will use the only REAL method we have to do that: Statistics.
The acid test of greatness comes when you pick your best ever dream team. That's the way fans have done it for decades.
Originally posted by CrowleySo what do you think of Wisden leaving him out of their team?
Absolutely. And unlike you and others who yearn to emotionally charged reverie in the days of yore, I will use the only REAL method we have to do that: Statistics.
The stats show that Kallis is the best all round cricketer ever. Period.
Originally posted by Tirau DanI love this one too.
Sobers played more than half of his Tests against England and Australia, whereas Kallis has picked up around 1000 runs and 40 wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. They shouldn't count.