12 Jun 07
george gillet has just told rafa he will not have a lot of money to spend. rafa was also promised he would be given backing for immediate action.... when was that again !?
man utd have spent over fifty million to try and maintain their position. how does chicken goerge expect rafa to get anywhere near catching man utd up without spending at least the same amount !?
i feel gutted as their main impetus seems to be getting money from a big new stadium. we MUST have some money from the CL run ?
feel totally gutted already. eto is staying at barca and henry will be joining him. so another contract for robbie fowler and voronin to be the new michael owen.
rafa will bugger off as soon as real madrid come asking.
this is not going well lads
12 Jun 07
Originally posted by scoop122diego your saviour?
george gillet has just told rafa he will not have a lot of money to spend. rafa was also promised he would be given backing for immediate action.... when was that again !?
man utd have spent over fifty million to try and maintain their position. how does chicken goerge expect rafa to get anywhere near catching man utd up without spending at least the same ...[text shortened]... ael owen.
rafa will bugger off as soon as real madrid come asking.
this is not going well lads
13 Jun 07
Originally posted by scoop122I think the fault lies with Moores.
george gillet has just told rafa he will not have a lot of money to spend. rafa was also promised he would be given backing for immediate action.... when was that again !?
man utd have spent over fifty million to try and maintain their position. how does chicken goerge expect rafa to get anywhere near catching man utd up without spending at least the same ...[text shortened]... ael owen.
rafa will bugger off as soon as real madrid come asking.
this is not going well lads
He told everyone he was trying to get the best deal for LFC.
He went behind the Arabs back and tried to setup an auction.
If the Arabs had bought LFC you would have seen big investment instead of big debts.
Also partnerships are risky ventures, people team up to share risks and what happens if one changes his mind or dies?
Also what happens when one wants to take a risk and the other doesn't?
I do think Liverpool fans have been spun lies by Moores and Parry (as he picks up his 1/2m bonus for the sale). I mean 1/2 the LFC fans still believe your club did not take out a 300m debt to buy the club.
The Americans Hicks and Gilette just spun the story better than the Glazers did.
17 Jun 07
1 edit
How can a team with a benefactor worth $1bn compete with a team with one worth $30bn?
It's all academic.
Chelsea didn't spend big this year because they thought they had enough quality in the squad to do the job. OK, they had plenty of warnings to the contrary and paid the price, but if Liverpool start spending big you'll be more than matched by Abramovich, who will NOT want to miss out on the league again.
I think it was 1982 or 3 when Watford came a distant second to Liverpool. Watford were a small side, but there's more difference between Liverpool and Chelsea today in spending power as Liverpool in 1982 and that Watford side.
And then you complain about a few million for a few players.
Forget it!
If you buy players like Et'o, Totti, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Vieira and maybe somebody like Daniele de Rossi you might stand a chance.
But it ain't going to happen, guys! None of those players would want to play for you, and the few good players on offer are not good enough to do the job you need them to do.
17 Jun 07
Originally posted by asromacalcioFor a while I thought you could not compete against Chelski, I now realise that you can but you need to follow this model:-
How can a team with a benefactor worth $1bn compete with a team with one worth $30bn?
It's all academic.
Chelsea didn't spend big this year because they thought they had enough quality in the squad to do the job. OK, they had plenty of warnings to the contrary and paid the price, but if Liverpool start spending big you'll be more than matched by A ...[text shortened]... , and the few good players on offer are not good enough to do the job you need them to do.
- A really top class manager who can develop young talented players into world class players
- A transfer budget of about 30m a year
- Buy 1 or 2 expensive (7m to 15m rated) YOUNG talented players who the manager can develop, each year
- Buy one top class player (still no older than 27) if you can balance the 30m budget
- Try and keep the heart of the team English
- You need at least about 2 or 3 years to develop the side
Sir Alex has proven this, the Champions are now more than a match for Chelsea and are continuing to develop.
Wenger if he adds a top class midfielder and striker, Van Persie, Fabregas and the other young names I could never spell at Arsenal continue to develop.
They could easily be back up there.
Both Sir Alex and Wenger have proven they can spot, buy and develop good talent into world beaters.
Liverpool could do the same but and they have made a start in the right direction by re-signing some of thier best players on long term contracts.
What Liverpool and Rafa have to prove now though are the following to catch the Champions and Chelsea:-
- They have 30m+ a year to spent, thats all they need
- Sell the deadwood like Bellamy, Cisse, Kewell etc... and raise another 20m
- Buy 1 really top YOUNG talent that you can develop and is a guaranteed sucess, I would say do everything you can to buy either Tevez, Berbatov or Robhinio
- Rafa has still to prove IMHO that he can develop a young player, he needs to buy 2 real talents in he 6m to 12m range (each year) and develop them, for example players in England he could buy NOW (or could have bought) include Bale, Downing, SWP, Defoe, L.King, Sidwell, Lita. I also am greatful, but don't understand why Liverpool didn't compete for Bale, Nani or Anderson, Spurs did try to get Nani and signed the amazing talented Bale.
- Rafa needs 3 more years to follow this model, he should not go for quick sucess and spend big on 2 30m players, big mistake, players like Eto are a gamble and what happens if your big money player gets injured, look at Newcastle with Owen?
The myth that Chelsea are unstoppable in the market has been broken.
They can buy the best if they want to but you need to study how Wenger and Ferguson have patiently build up teams over the years.
Also Chelsea have learned a difficult and confusing lesson from the buys of Ballack, Schevchenko and SWP. They will be more cautious from now onwards I think, which will open the opputunity window even more for teams like Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Tottenham.
The situation at Liverpool though is very confusing.
Maybe they have players ligned up in Spain and can't talk about it until the Spanish season is over?
I don't think this is the case though because Liverpool are saying conflicting things like:-
- Rafa saying I want a big signing before I get back from my holiday (he has been back 1 week)
- Parry saying there will be a big move this week (that was almost 2 weeks ago), maybe he's still delerious from the 0.5m bonus he go from selling LFC to the Americans
- Liverpool not competing/trying for Bale, Nani, Anderson, SWP? and even Bent
- Rumours of a showdown meeting arranged for this week with Rafa and the board
- Tevez is the really confusing one. He is so obviously what Liverpool need. Hicks and Gillette said you can have Snoppy Dogg if you want him. Mr Hicks you want Tevez (he has a friend called Macherano on your books), go and buy him. His numerous owners will sell to the highest bidder NOW. If Liverpool bought just one big name in Tevez and sold the deadwood and brought in talent to develop around him you could be a big 85+ point team in the league within 2 or 3 years
Who knows what is happening at Liverpool, I'm watching as a curious Liverpool hater.
I will say though that Liverpool have the potential to challenge I think it all rests on if the club has what it takes to buy Tevez and Rafa needs to starat showing he can develop a raw young player into a world class player like Sir Alex did with Ronaldo and Wenger is doing with Van Persie (as recent examples).
Forget about Eto, Torres - too risky.
17 Jun 07
Originally posted by toyboy64What a strange, uneducated and innaccurate post.
Liverpools highest transer aid was xabi alonso 10.5 million we don't need lot of money to get the stars.
For a start, here's a fact for you.
Rafa has bought 41 players at LFC for over 86 million in his three years.
http://www.lfchistory.net/stats_transfers_by_manager.asp?list=Get&manager_id=20&InOut=1
So it seems like LFC under Rafa spend on average 29m a season on new 'talent'.
Lets look at the players LFC have bought in the last 5 years or so (the ones we can remember):-
Very bad buys:
Diof, Cisse, Heskey, Cherou, Pongolle+Le Tallec, Ziege, Kewell, Zenden, Gonzalez, Paletta, Fowler, Nunez, Pellegrino, Morientes.
Very averaye buys:
Bellamy, Arbeloa, Pennant
Ok buys, but not title winners:
Agger, Finnan, Sissoko, Garcia, Crouch.
Quite good buys, still not Manchester United or Chelsea material:
Kuyt, Reina, Alonso.
World class buys, or potential to be WC:
Mascherano.
Liverpool FC Talent coming through in last 5 years:
Can't think of any.
My god, no wonder Hicks and Gillett are not spending.
Rafa has brought in 41 players and only 1 of them is any good.
Lets have a quick look at the the Champions:
World class buys, or potential to be WC (in last 5 years):
C Ronaldo 12m
Vidic 7m
Evra 5m
Heinz 7m
Rooney 25m
Ferdinand 27m
Anderson 18m
Nani 17m
Hargreaves 18m
Manchester United Talent coming through in last 5 years:
Foster, o'Shea, Richardson, Evans (ask any Sunderland supporter), Fletcher, Rossi, Pique.
Thats why were Champions.
21 Jun 07
Originally posted by Rooney Once a Bluesome reasonable points mate but as you are no doubt aware a number of those players were not rafa's buys. e.g. cisse,diouf, heskey, cheyrou, pongolle, etc.
What a strange, uneducated and innaccurate post.
For a start, here's a fact for you.
Rafa has bought 41 players at LFC for over 86 million in his three years.
http://www.lfchistory.net/stats_transfers_by_manager.asp?list=Get&manager_id=20&InOut=1
So it seems like LFC under Rafa spend on average 29m a season on new 'talent'.
Lets look ...[text shortened]... Evans (ask any Sunderland supporter), Fletcher, Rossi, Pique.
Thats why were Champions.
also our most costly transfer was cisse at 14 million.
i would rate agger higher than you have given him credit for but one season doesnt mean greatness. i can't remember when garcia last played so unable to comment... not being petty but i am the only person who doesnt think rio ferdinand is world class ?
we have a long long way to go to catch man utd. shows the benefit of sticking with a manager. i truly believe fergie is far better than mourinho. mourinho is being found out as limited and dour. i reckon your lot for the league again next year but it wouldnt surprise me to see us challenging strongly for second.
that's if / when we ever sign a proper size cheque for players. we need two major signings if only as a statement of purpose.
22 Jun 07
Originally posted by scoop122I agree that quite a few of the buys made were before Rafa, I'm just pointing out that Liverpool over the last 3 years have spent about 29m on average by having a fair sized transfer kitty and selling players.
some reasonable points mate but as you are no doubt aware a number of those players were not rafa's buys. e.g. cisse,diouf, heskey, cheyrou, pongolle, etc.
also our most costly transfer was cisse at 14 million.
i would rate agger higher than you have given him credit for but one season doesnt mean greatness. i can't remember when garcia last played so un ...[text shortened]... proper size cheque for players. we need two major signings if only as a statement of purpose.
I think the problem is that LFC continually try and buy the finished article at the 8m to 14m range.
I don't think you can do that.
Looking at United, Arsenal and Chelsea it would appear transfers are much more likely to succeed if you either buy very young (but great) potential in the 6m to 15m range, or buy the finished article who is proved in the 20m+ range.
So I think Liverpool have to stop buying these 25/26 year old 8m+ players and either buy young players like Bale, Ronaldo, Wallcot, Rooney, Nani, Anderson, Van Persie.
These players are expensive (but affordable) and the manager has time to develop them.
Alternitively you have to go into the 20m+ range and buy Tevez.
He I believe is a big part of the puzzle for Liverpool.
Imagine him linking with Gerrard and I think he would bring the best out of Kuyt.
I'm sure you know I'm no fan of Liverpool, but it would scare me to see him in an LFC shirt.
Surely Rafa and the board know this.
Tevez is exactly what LFC need, if you really want to challenge for the league, and your new owners are true to their word, LFC should go all out for Tevez, he's not a Madrid player yet, but he is exactly what you need.
If LFC don't buy Tevez, any of the other 20m+ players currently available are risky:-
Eto, Torres should work out but its an expensive risk, who would have thought that Ballack, Schevchenko and that muppet Veron would be so poor.
I mean Torres could work out, but who knows, Forlan and Kanoute out score him.
I was a little hard on Agger and Kuyt.
They are not great yet, but a second season in the premiership can really change a player, so maybe they will both turn out to be very good buys for LFC.
As for Ferdinand.
On his own, he isn't world class but playing alongside someone like Vidic does make him play better and I would say last season he was WC for United.
Thats why Tevez is the man LFC should go all out for.
He's more than proven in the premiership.
Plays for the club.
Can easily win the game on his own.
Makes players around him play better.
Never gives in.
Is still young at 22 or 23.
Even if he costs 35m, buying him is like signing 2 players and he inspires everyone around him.
Players like this don't become available very often, the last one was Rooney and he cost 27m, worth every penny and more.
I may be wrong, but lets say Liverpool but Torres for 25m, a 12m left winger and one other 12m talent.
I don't see it being enough to get closer than 15 points to United.
We have just added Nani, Anderson and Hargreaves, (Foster).
Ok, Giggs and Scholes have 1 or 2 years left, but how much longer can StevieG keep on playing with the same box 2 box energy?
Interesting times........
Tevez is the man, but do LFC have the ambition?