04 Jun 07
Originally posted by PalynkaI'm a Manchester United supporter and so I don't particulally like Liverpool.
You'll never walk alone.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6717793.stm
I have to say though that this report is outragous.
You never see any trouble at Liverpool games, its only at the away games in Europe.
I've been to away games in Europe following United and each time I've been the police seem to enjoy trying to provoke the English supporters.
I have friends that follow Liverpool in Europe, some went to the game in Athens and one friend couldn't get into the game with a valid ticket bought from LFC, they accused him of having a forged ticket and forced him away from the ground.
Every team has a small minority of fans that drink too much and get involved in small incidents, but as usual English supporters seem to be singled out here.
English fans are targetted in Europe by trouble making groups, some of them even wear Liverpool or Manchester United shirts to make it look like they are English causing the trouble.
The policing in Europe against English supporters is very heavy handed and they often cause trouble by the way they treat fans.
An additional problem is that English teams have so many fans that want to go to the big away games that there is a massive market for tickets and so people innocently buy forgeries from internet sites.
When they get to the game they innocently have a ticket that can cost over 500 pounds and is a forgery.
Obviously they will be quite upset when they get turned away, the problem is that the policing in Europe does not seem to be able to handle any kind of problem without using a batton stick.
04 Jun 07
Originally posted by Angry BoyIt's not a bait, it's a pretty strong UEFA statement.
35 minutes and no bite. You may have to change your bait Palynka 😉
I'm pretty sure that even the majority of decent and respectful Liverpool fans are shunning this report from the start as biased, propaganda or whatever, instead of really caring about cleaning up the act of some idiot fans.
25 incidents away from home since 2003 sounds like a lot. Of course, we'd have to read the report to know what constitutes an incident, but what's funny is that you tossers don't even care.
It's one of the reasons why I don't care too much for Liverpool. Their fans think and claim that they're the best in the world, there's no place like Anfield, bla bla. In reality, this arrogance leads to behaviours like the ones UEFA is reporting about.
But you keep on not caring. It's all a persecution. UEFA never liked Liverpool, did they?
Keep telling yourself that.
04 Jun 07
Originally posted by PalynkaPretty sure? 70%? 80%? 90%?
I'm pretty sure that even the majority of decent and respectful Liverpool fans are shunning this report from the start as biased, propaganda or whatever, instead of really caring about cleaning up the act of some idiot fans.
This certainty in the face of contrary quotes in your own linked story...
"Andy Knott from the Liverpool fanzine Red All Over told BBC Radio Five Live that both the fans and the authorities were to blame for what happened in Europe this season.
He said: "It's a culmination of everything. The Liverpool fans weren't innocent and a lot of them have got to have a look at themselves and take that into account.
"But at the same time Uefa have got to look at it and instead of trying to give token games to people with big stadiums, they've got to do it in a proper way.
"I mean how you can have a football ground without a turnstile - where it's just a metal gate that opens and you walk through - its just not football is it?"
If you're trying to bait people, try to at least make it believable/logical, otherwise you just come across as a bit of a muppet.
D
04 Jun 07
2 edits
Originally posted by Ragnorak[/b]That's the statement of one person only. You only need to check out other forums to see what I mean.
Pretty sure? 70%? 80%? 90%?
This certainty in the face of contrary quotes in your own linked story...
"Andy Knott from the [b]Liverpool fanzine Red All Over told BBC Radio Five Live that both the fans and the authorities were to blame for what happened in Europe this season.
He said: "It's a culmination of everything. The Liverpool fans w make it believable/logical, otherwise you just come across as a bit of a muppet.
D
And don't avoid the issue, muppet. Do you personally blame Liverpool fans?
Edit - I'm not baiting anyone, my points are direct and clear. If you need to clear up something about my position just ask.
Edit 2: And I see a guy initially claiming that fans are to blame and then proceeds to blame everything else but the fans.
04 Jun 07
Originally posted by Palynka25 incidents you say??
It's not a bait, it's a pretty strong UEFA statement.
I'm pretty sure that even the majority of decent and respectful Liverpool fans are shunning this report from the start as biased, propaganda or whatever, instead of really caring about cleaning up the act of some idiot fans.
25 incidents away from home since 2003 sounds like a lot. Of course, we'd h ...[text shortened]... l a persecution. UEFA never liked Liverpool, did they?
Keep telling yourself that.
Name them, and then i'll trawl through the internet pageslooking for similar incidents involving Chelsea fans and Porto fans,
Crack on, i'll log back in later too see how you've done.
04 Jun 07
Originally posted by millermanI'm not a Chelsea fan.
25 incidents you say??
Name them, and then i'll trawl through the internet pageslooking for similar incidents involving Chelsea fans and Porto fans,
Crack on, i'll log back in later too see how you've done.
I can't name them because I haven't seen the report. But the fact that you doubt the relevance or existence of those incidents even before seeing the report is telling.
04 Jun 07
1 edit
Originally posted by PalynkaSo you haven't seen the report, you don't know what's in it and you're going to take their word as gospel? We all know the latest incident involved some idiot LFC fans at the CL final, but there were just as many reporting that the organisation in Athens was at best a joke or at worst another tragedy waiting to happen due to pi55 poor management by UEFA and local police.
I'm not a Chelsea fan.
I can't name them because I haven't seen the report. But the fact that you doubt the relevance or existence of those incidents even before seeing the report is telling.
I'm quiet sure that the report will contain many damning incidents involving LFC fans and a fair bit of arse covering by incompetent UEFA officials. However, I'll reserve judgement (unlike yourself) until I'm armed with a bit more information.
04 Jun 07
Originally posted by Angry BoyWhere did I take their word as gospel?
So you haven't seen the report, you don't know what's in it and you're going to take their word as gospel? We all know the latest incident involved some idiot LFC fans at the CL final, but there were just as many reporting that the organisation in Athens was at best a joke or at worst another tragedy waiting to happen due to pi55 poor management by UEFA an ...[text shortened]... er, I'll reserve judgement (unlike yourself) until I'm armed with a bit more information.
Learn how to read. All I said was that it was a pretty strong statement from UEFA and that it's a shame scousers are already dismissing it without reading it.
And it sounds suspicious that the "pi55 poor management by UEFA and local police" only led to problems on the Liverpool side. Except to British people, of course.
04 Jun 07
Originally posted by PalynkaSpecifically to Athens, there was no trouble rfom the Milan side as their fans didn't turn up in such numbers.
Where did I take their word as gospel?
Learn how to read. All I said was that it was a pretty strong statement from UEFA and that it's a shame scousers are already dismissing it without reading it.
And it sounds suspicious that the "pi55 poor management by UEFA and local police" only led to problems on the Liverpool side. Except to British people, of course.
Had the Athens authorities made provision for ticketless fans (Big Outdoor Screen, fan village etc) then many of the so called "fans" wouldn't have felt the need to storm the stadium.
Those that do cause trouble are not "fans" they're hooligans.
04 Jun 07
does an incident count as swearing a police officer or oppositon fans?
liverpool may have caused 25 minor incidents but when do we attack rival supporters-even chelsea ones, i am sure more than 25 people were involved at the utd-lille game or at the roma-utd game
do we throw coins and flares at the players or referees
On a seperate note
do we fix matches and then think we should be excusd because were're the best teams in the country-well obviosly juve and ac should have being the best teams in italy seeing as they fixed the games
04 Jun 07
Originally posted by PalynkaYou very rarely get trouble in European games in England.
Where did I take their word as gospel?
Learn how to read. All I said was that it was a pretty strong statement from UEFA and that it's a shame scousers are already dismissing it without reading it.
And it sounds suspicious that the "pi55 poor management by UEFA and local police" only led to problems on the Liverpool side. Except to British people, of course.
Its because we have sorted out the problem, with well organized policing, safe grounds that have been redesigned to minimize any possibility of trouble and segregation of fans before and after the games.
In Europe there is trouble at many European (and it seems league games).
I can say from my own experience that the policing of English fans is very poor.
I was pushed around with a batton just for asking directions.
I was laughed at by police as they pretended not to speak English but they joked about it in English after pushing me away.
Only grounds like Neu Camp, Santiago Bernabéu and the San Siro are big enough to hold games like the CL final.
Also the police need training and to be aware fom past history that games involving English and Italian/Greece/Turkey sides can be prone to trouble and some people (on both sides) will look for it.
The way stadiums are policed and managed in Europe is sub standard and 3rd world in comarison to the way games are organized in England.
The rest of Europe should use the English model for organizing games as there is rarely trouble and when it breaks out it is dealt with quickly and fairly.
I see a fan attacked a ref in Europe this week.
If the same happened in England we would be thrown out of Europe for 5 years probably.
10 Jun 07
Originally posted by PalynkaCan you tell me what incidences Liverpool have been punished for as a club? I believe the answer is none.
All I said was that it was a pretty strong statement from UEFA and that it's a shame scousers are already dismissing it without reading it.
Tell me which is worse? 2 Liverpool "fans" getting involved in a fracas or 40,000 Real Zaragoza (or other Spanish/Italian/whereever) fans racially abusing black players, game after game, season after season?
How many police officers have Liverpool fans killed during the term of the report. How many visiting fans have been stabbed by Liverpool fans? How many times have Liverpool fans attacked/thrown missiles at the ref?
D