Not Fit To Wear The Shirt...

Originally posted by invigorate
I'd rather have Lennon than Beckham on the right.
Hargreaves is the best holding midfielder we have. He gives Gerrard freedom.
Rooney is a luxury, but he is capable of magic so I say keep him - it isn't as if we have a multitude of strikers anyway.
Downing wouldn't be in my team either. I would play Gareth Barry but anyway Joe Cole will be back soon.

Oh yes! Joe Cole.... where is he when you need him!!!

Originally posted by blade68
A couple of points:
I'm more than happy to jump on the 'bring back Beckham' bandwagon!

Hargreaves is not international class, he gets caught in possession far too often.

Rooney isn't performing at the moment.

Downing only gets a look in 'cos McClaren was his manager at 'Boro (ala Bobby Robson/Paul Mariner).

Discuss!

I agree, What is more amazing is that Beckham isn't even on the bench.

Against Israel, what would have been better to see Beckham replace Neville at right back for the last 30 minutes when Israel were obviously just defending and the quality of our balls into the box were just dreadful. We have not looked like scoring from a set piece.

Hargreaves may not be world class but i think he can have a role in England. Downing is not that bad, although I prefer Barry or even Matty Taylor.

Rooney is a disgrace to the England shirt. I would love for Cloughie to return, he would sort out the swearing petulant idiot who lost us the world cup.

Lampard IS world class, go to a live game and just watch him, he does everything. Commentators and sports writer idiots watch the ball, coaches watch everything. Coaches rate Lampard, commentators don't.

Originally posted by blade68
He was the only midfielder that showed any passion at the WC... I'll give you that.

You could also replace "passion" for "technique" in most cases. I've said before, I'm not all that impressed by passion. It'll get you nowhere if you aren't good enough. Hargreaves was the best midfielder we had at the world cup.

(Fair point about the shooting, though 🙂)

Originally posted by petrosianpupil
I agree, What is more amazing is that Beckham isn't even on the bench.

Against Israel, what would have been better to see Beckham replace Neville at right back for the last 30 minutes when Israel were obviously just defending and the quality of our balls into the box were just dreadful. We have not looked like scoring from a set piece.

I'm not a big Beckham fan, but there is a point here. There were times when I wished Sven had dropped him, and he was poor at the World Cup, but dropping him from the squad was a mistake. I think it was McClaren trying to look strong, whereas a truly strong manager wouldn't have felt the need to make such a point.

I still probably wouldn't have him first choice but, as you say, he could be a useful sub when a change of approach is needed.

Originally posted by Angry Boy
No. Gerrard is England's best player despite Lampard hindering his game. When they play together Gerrard is either forced out to the wing or has to play more defensively to cover for Lampard playing virtually up front. Gerrard in CM and allowed to roam is probably unrivalled in the world, so why are England not playing him there?

Lampard is first pick a ...[text shortened]... for the first half and the other for the second.

Alan Green sounds much like you then.

Joe Cole prefers to play central midfield.

So you think that the player that was:

Player of the year 2004

Runner up in world player of the year 2005

45 goals from midfield for chelsea in this and the previous two seasons.

Sven said he was the fittest player in Portugal and he came top with Beckham and Nerville when they tested the England Squad for the world cup.

Previous managers said:

"for him phenominal became the norm"

"Lampard's attitude was the key to his emergence as a world-class midfielder."

More from Mourinho

"For me, Lampard is guilty. He is guilty because you never had a player like him in the last 10 years and because of that you are having a go at him.

He is guilty because he scored so many goals and he played so many matches and he always gives 100%, game after game, for Chelsea and England."

Chelsea have dominated football in what is currently the best performing league in the world. They have spent a fortune on the best players in the world and yet Frank Lampard remains "untouchable".

You may say that Mourinho is a one eyed idiot, but at least he has one more eye than you.

Lampard is a GREAT box to box player. Clearly you have some issues that prevent you from seeing this.

Originally posted by mtthw
I'm not a big Beckham fan, but there is a point here. There were times when I wished Sven had dropped him, and he was poor at the World Cup, but dropping him from the squad was a mistake. I think it was McClaren trying to look strong, whereas a truly strong manager wouldn't have felt the need to make such a point.

I still probably wouldn't have him first choice but, as you say, he could be a useful sub when a change of approach is needed.

I think that we always have problems when our best players lose a bit.

Beckham used to be our most important player and when that stopped being the case the media started their anti Beckham bandwagon.

I would still play him. However I can understand that against some teams, pace on the wing is very important.

Personally though I am with Brian Clough who would always defend John Robertson, despite his lack of pace. Clough would say that it was the wingers most important job to cross the ball. We see with the current England wingers, that the final ball is rubbish. Not least because Beckham would cross early before defences were organised.

England managers have always underestimated the value of a quality ball players; Hoddle, le Tissier etc.

Originally posted by petrosianpupil
Joe Cole prefers to play central midfield.

So you think that the player that was:

Player of the year 2004

Runner up in world player of the year 2005

45 goals from midfield for chelsea in this and the previous two seasons.

Sven said he was the fittest player in Portugal and he came top with Beckham and Nerville when they tested the Engla ...[text shortened]... REAT box to box player. Clearly you have some issues that prevent you from seeing this.

You forgot to finish your paragraph. So I think that he's what? Not world class? Yes, he's not World Class. Is he the second best player in the world? No, he's not even the second best player at Chelsea. The honours he's won in the last few years are from being in a dominant team that puts his game first. He has a role which suits him down to the ground at Chelsea. Essien, Ballack and Makalele doing the donkey work whilst he takes a swipe at anything that comes his way. Yet when he plays for England without the protection afforded to him at Chelsea, and where he's required to do a bit more than shoot he consistently under performs.

If Lampard is world class why can't he show it on the international stage?

What exactly does "world class" mean?

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
What exactly does "world class" mean?

Not sure, but I know it shouldn't be used to describe Frank Lampard.

Originally posted by mtthw
It does seem few people manage to be objective about England.

Fairly consistent qualification for World Cups. Consistent qualification for the second round once they're there. Quarter finals of the last three major tournaments. Personally, I'm quite happy with what they've achieved.

People who consider that underachieving are probably kidding themselves, but not as much as people who think that's "utter rubbish".

Yeah, I was thinking that to myself the other day when England was playing Andorra and Scotland was playing Italy...

I'm sure the luck of the draw doesn't compensate for England's lack of talent.

Originally posted by mtthw
There were times when I wished Sven had dropped him, and he was poor at the World Cup, but dropping him from the squad was a mistake. I think it was McClaren trying to look strong, whereas a truly strong manager wouldn't have felt the need to make such a point.

Absolutely... I couldn't agree more.

Originally posted by petrosianpupil

England managers have always underestimated the value of a quality ball players; Hoddle, le Tissier etc.[/b]

....Tony Currie.