Penn State

Now that Jerry Sandusky has been found guilty it seems more and more is being revealed in terms of the overall coverup at the university. So if it is also found that there was a coverup, should Penn State get the NCAA death penalty?

So far, everyone involved has been fired and charged with crimes. The legal system is going to punish the wrongdoers. Who would be punished by an NCAA death penalty? Future students and football players? How are they guilty?

Originally posted by John Osmar
So far, everyone involved has been fired and charged with crimes. The legal system is going to punish the wrongdoers. Who would be punished by an NCAA death penalty? Future students and football players? How are they guilty?

The death penalty would the institute which many believed completely lacked control over those who acted wrongly and was more concerned about its reputation and covering up transgressions than doing the right thing. The currently athletes would be allowed to transfer (without sitting out a year) and future athletes could go to a different institute. I am not sure it is the correct punishment or if the NCAA needs to do anything but as long as football players are allowed to transfer I would not worry too much about them.

Originally posted by whodey
Now that Jerry Sandusky has been found guilty it seems more and more is being revealed in terms of the overall coverup at the university. So if it is also found that there was a coverup, should Penn State get the NCAA death penalty?

Overkill

<yuk yuk>

Sandusky's in prison and everyone who knew anything is being forced out in disgrace. The program is already set back at least a decade. I don't see any point at all in forcing the school to stop its football program.

Originally posted by sh76
Overkill

<yuk yuk>

Sandusky's in prison and everyone who knew anything is being forced out in disgrace. The program is already set back at least a decade. I don't see any point at all in forcing the school to stop its football program.

Right now Penn State has the number 13 recruiting class in the nation. I am not sure why you think the program is set back at all.

Suppose you were a salesman at a branch office and something like this happened, involving the sales manager and a couple salesmen. Suppose the home office fired them, and the police arrested them. Would you then be happy if the home office said "And the rest of you guys are not allowed to get new customers for five years."?

Originally posted by John Osmar
Suppose you were a salesman at a branch office and something like this happened, involving the sales manager and a couple salesmen. Suppose the home office fired them, and the police arrested them. Would you then be happy if the home office said "And the rest of you guys are not allowed to get new customers for five years."?

The issue is whether Penn State tried to cover everything up and gave Sandusky access to their facilities and their good name in order to commit his crimes.
If a sales organization was part of a conspiracy and a cover up, I wouldn't be too upset if after the appropriate arrests were made, the company was not allowed to get customers for five years.

Originally posted by quackquack
The issue is whether Penn State tried to cover everything up and gave Sandusky access to their facilities and their good name in order to commit his crimes.
If a sales organization was part of a conspiracy and a cover up, I wouldn't be too upset if after the appropriate arrests were made, the company was not allowed to get customers for five years.

I agree with Osmar. Punishing the non-guilty is silly and overkill! Punish the guilty and leave it at that. Make the university expend resources on ensuring this never happens again. That would be way more useful and at least have a positive future effect.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
I agree with Osmar. Punishing the non-guilty is silly and overkill! Punish the guilty and leave it at that. Make the university expend resources on ensuring this never happens again. That would be way more useful and at least have a positive future effect.

Then should we ever punish a program for lack of institutional control?

Originally posted by quackquack
Then should we ever punish a program for lack of institutional control?

Yes, as long as it punishes the guilty. Sometimes, that can take a while. The UNC football team had some players suspended for a few games. That wasn't enough when they realized the coaches were corrupt. Fired them. Some of the suits knew about it. Fired them. That wasn't enough when they found out the teachers had made up junk courses for the players. Fired them. Certainly by now, the problem can be described as lack of 'institutional control', but the legal process has to work out the details, not just throw a blanket punishment at them and hope it covered the bad ones.

If teams get bowl bans for paying players, or pass out suspensions for getting free tattoos, why shouldn't Penn State be punished for allowing a pedaphile a place to molest children? If that is not lack of institutional control, I don't know what is. If I was a player for Penn State, I would want to transfer based on principle. Why would I want to play for such a morally bankrupt University? Screw them. I hope they get the death penalty.

William Penn would have been horrified.

Originally posted by quackquack
Then should we ever punish a program for lack of institutional control?

Again, punish the guilty. The way NCAA does things they end up punishing the kids way harsher than the idiots adults who created the mess in the first place. So now all sorts of resources will be expended on the wrong things, jobs lost, students lost via transfer, and even the non-athlete students will end up paying the price as the university takes away resources from other departments because of a football program penalty. If any students were involved in the coverup then punish them as well, but to punish kids who had nothing to do with the problem is silly at best, I hope Penn ST. appeals and wins and ends this kind of nonsense once and for all.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
Again, punish the guilty. The way NCAA does things they end up punishing the kids way harsher than the idiots adults who created the mess in the first place. So now all sorts of resources will be expended on the wrong things, jobs lost, students lost via transfer, and even the non-athlete students will end up paying the price as the university takes aw ...[text shortened]... silly at best, I hope Penn ST. appeals and wins and ends this kind of nonsense once and for all.

The Penn State situation seems similar to the effect of boycotting countries (South Africa was once a popular one to boycott) because we disagree with a policy. The individuals who live/ work there are often the ones who suffer yet they never instituted the objectionable policy. The rationale for boycots in South Africa was that people should not support a country with racist policy. Perhaps people in Happy Valley should not blindly shout "we are Penn State" yet complain when they are punished for the failure of the institution to monitor individual behavior.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
Again, punish the guilty. .

The guilty is the university that used the football program for revenue purposes. Therefore, the only justice would be to take away this revenue that they placed ahead of innocent children.

I guess I expected what happened. I mean, Penn State brings in too much revenue for the NCAA to kill their football program. At the same time, public outrage dictates that they do something somewhat harsh.

As for teams giving up wins from the past, I just don't get it. Those games are long over and no way to take them back. It makes no sense. They can pretend all they want the Joe Pa did not get all those wins, but he did. It's kinda like Pete Rose being ignored for getting the most hits in baseball......minus child rape that is.

Sorry Pete, I did not mean to compare you to Joe Pa. As unscrupulus as you may have been you come no where close to the ilk of Joe Pa.