Premier League... Spain and L.A. to the rescue?

Originally posted by Ragnorak
It seems to me that you are saying that there isn't even 1 talented English player? I don't know many sides in the world which John Terry, Rio Ferdinand or Wayne Rooney wouldn't get into.

Your initial topic for debate is pretty much redundant. Of course the import of quality foreign players, whether from Spain, Latin America, Bulgaria, Australia or Kor t that the more top quality players a league has, the better the league is going to be.

D

No, of course there is a lot of talent in England. Sides like Sunderland or West Ham or Man City, for example, hold some very promising young lads. But try to keep your anglophileness back for a while and let's think.

It is the overrating the anglophile media tries to make out of big puffs (like Lampard or Terry himself) what is sickening and ends up breaking the fans' hearts, because they feed them the "what a great football giant we are" and then, ahem, ahem, Croatia shows England its place.

EPL would not be the very good entertainment it is now, if it wasn't for the imported talent, i.e. players with sparkle, which the English player lacks (with the exception of a few). They have other very good qualities, like tactical order and physical endurance, but not show, entertainment, panache.

As for Real Madrid, by far is the topic of discussion, mind. Actually, nowadays the EPL is superior to La Liga. No discussion there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/7174093.stm

Joseph Blatter speaks... worth debating.

Blatter blamed the Premier League's taste for expensive foreign talent as one of the main reasons for England's problems at international level and said English players and coaches must be given a chance to develop at club level.

"When I started at Fifa in 1975 (former England manager) Walter Winterbottom was working for us and English coaches were respected all over the world," he said.

"But look at the international scene now. Which foreign teams are coached by English coaches? And where are the English footballers playing abroad?

How beautiful is Rooney's understanding with Ronaldo? Isn't Rooney (as does Ronaldo) also improving by playing alongside some of the world's best?

I have to say, as a neutral, that MU has been playing some great football and are so far the most interesting team in the EPL. If they go on like this, I hope they get the title at the end of the year.

I don't know about Europe but I'm also looking forward to their CL games. They seem to have a good mix of young/experienced players (and some still young but with experience) and I'd love to see a Real vs MU tie somewhere along the way.

Originally posted by Palynka
How beautiful is Rooney's understanding with Ronaldo? Isn't Rooney (as does Ronaldo) also improving by playing alongside some of the world's best?

I have to say, as a neutral, that MU has been playing some great football and are so far the most interesting team in the EPL. If they go on like this, I hope they get the title at the end of the year.

I don ...[text shortened]... l young but with experience) and I'd love to see a Real vs MU tie somewhere along the way.

With Paul Scholes and our captain to return shortly, while Saha and Park get some more match practice, I see us being very hard to beat in any competition.

With Scholes playing, the rest of the midfield and forwards games are brought on due to his natural ability to create space. Carrick is a nothing footballer without Scholes. Anderson will be brought on to another level by playing alongside Scholes. A lot of the pressure will also be removed from the young Anderson's shoulders with the return of Scholes, which is important as I think Anderson has put himself in a difficult situation, with the sustained brilliant start he has made to his United career.

Neville returning will mean that we have cover for the two centre backs, with Brown able to go inside, or Pique able to come in.

Park's first start back was immense, and he was my man of the first 65 minutes. His energy was immense, and his natural ability to be in the right place at the right time meant that he always arrived in the box at the same time as the ball. He'll score goals and lots of them.

I also hope for a United -Real Madrid encounter. I really can't wait to see Heinze be embarressed by our forwards.

D

Originally posted by Seitse
No, of course there is a lot of talent in England. Sides like Sunderland or West Ham or Man City, for example, hold some very promising young lads. But try to keep your anglophileness back for a while and let's think.

It is the overrating the anglophile media tries to make out of big puffs (like Lampard or Terry himself) what is sickening and ends up break ...[text shortened]... f discussion, mind. Actually, nowadays the EPL is superior to La Liga. No discussion there.

Sides like Sunderland or West Ham or Man City, for example, hold some very promising young lads.
So what you're saying is that Rooney isn't talented. Walcott isn't promising. Ben Foster (Premier League keeper of the year last year) isn't a prospect.

What promising english players do you refer to at the 3 clubs you mentioned above?

I really can't understand what you started this thread for. It seems that you are constantly changing the angle of your points. Now, you're denying that you said that there are no talented english players, but that your point is about the hype? This after your original point was something about Spanish players being the only talented ones in the Premier League.

In the past 4 seasons, Lampard has scored 15, 19, 20 and 21. Yet, you maintain he doesn't "sparkle"? Are we having a football discussion, or are we discussing the latest ball gown designs?

The spine of Manchester United is English... Ferdinand, Neville, Scholes, Rooney. United play the most entertaining football in England, yet you claim they don't have panache or style? Seriously?

D

Originally posted by Seitse
English football (I mean the Premier, because the national team sucks) has more and more players that do not play like robots and kick the ball 40 meters in the air hoping for Crouch to head it, that play with creativity, joy and 'panache'.

Can somebody debate that the Premier is getting better thanks to the Spaniards and other players (and coaches!) from the "warm territories"?

Isn't it funny that Mourinho (Portuguese) got sacked because his football was so terrible to watch, in that the main aim was to stop the opponent from playing and launching the ball to Drogba, so that players like Lampard could run onto knockdowns. Mourinho was successful, but his particular brand of football was unwatchable.

Under Benitez (a Spaniard), Liverpool have stopped playing football, preferring to bypass midfield entirely most of the time.

Compare those 2 to the teams of Ferguson, Moyes, Curbishley, Hughes, Rednapp, O'Neill and Coppell.

Are you maintaining that the great Liverpool of the 70s and 80s were solely long ball merchants?

Have you even thought about this?

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
his particular brand of football was unwatchable.

He doesn't have a "particular brand of football".

Porto played great fluid football under him, but he had a deluxe midfield with Costinha, Maniche and Deco all at their peak form (IMO). It's not about Mourinho's "style" (we won the UEFA cup with a 4-3-3 and the CL with 4-4-2) because he chooses the style that best fit his players.

Even in Chelsea, in his first year he had a much more flowing football style and he was already successful with it. With the introduction of Essien and Drogba, he traded off the ability to play such football for power and resilience. Since he was still successful (and perhaps even more dominating) in his second year under that style, he seems to be justified in adopting that style.

Bottomline, Mourinho chooses the brand of football that maximizes (under his view) his chances of being successful over a season. He doesn't have a single "particular brand of football".

it was mentioned a few times that the english national side is rubbish but the national league is one of the best in the world.....er....well isnt that the same situation in spain, i must have popped out to the shops and missed spain winning the world cup.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Isn't it funny that Mourinho (Portuguese) got sacked because his football was so terrible to watch, in that the main aim was to stop the opponent from playing and launching the ball to Drogba, so that players like Lampard could run onto knockdowns. Mourinho was successful, but his particular brand of football was unwatchable.

Under Benitez (a Spaniard), ...[text shortened]... of the 70s and 80s were solely long ball merchants?

Have you even thought about this?

D

There's no denial that there are terrible 'imports' and great 'natives', both in coaching and on the pitch. Also, that previous decades have had great teams (like the Liverpool you correctly point out). So I don't see where your particular examples are heading to.

Thus, the point remains: The fact that the Premier League is nowadays so tremendously enjoyable (at least it is slowly winning my heart over la Liga) is because loads of cash are buying foreign quality, and the EPL would not be what it is if not for the fresh air brought in by the aforementioned.

This becomes more evident if you see the recent failure of the national team. English team is terrible. Period. And this may be caused by the fact that the key positions in the EPL are played by imports, instead of being available for young English players.

Also, there are no notable English players overseas... but, of course, this can be greatly due to the fact that they don't get paid overseas what they can receive in England.

Originally posted by Seitse
Thus, the point remains: The fact that the Premier League is nowadays so tremendously enjoyable (at least it is slowly winning my heart over la Liga) is because loads of cash are buying foreign quality, and the EPL would not be what it is if not for the fresh air brought in by the aforementioned.

I don't see the topic of discussion in the quoted point. It's just a statement of the obvious.

D

Originally posted by Rooney Once a Blue
The most promising emerging players right now are:-
- Messi(19), Babel(20), Anderson(19), Fabregas(20), Nani(20)
Looks to me like the EPL is definately the place to be.

I'd remove Nani from that list. He's far from a complete player. And also Babel, for the time being. They're just not in the same class as Messi, Anderson and Fabregas.

A name you'd probably have to add to it would be Karim Benzema. At 20, he looks like a fantastic talent. Good in the air, good left and right foot, and skilled both inside and outside the box.
YouTube

Fits the profile of the type of player Ferguson likes to buy. I only hope he doesn't do us serious damage in the Champions League.

Alan Hutton and him to be bought in the summer, and United would be very close to being perfectly setup for the years ahead, IMHO.

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
I'd remove Nani from that list. He's far from a complete player. And also Babel, for the time being. They're just not in the same class as Messi, Anderson and Fabregas.

A name you'd probably have to add to it would be Karim Benzema. At 20, he looks like a fantastic talent. Good in the air, good left and right foot, and skilled both inside and outsid ...[text shortened]... er, and United would be very close to being perfectly setup for the years ahead, IMHO.

D

I totally agree that Nani and Babel are not proven.
I just think they both have something special and every 2 or 3 games they will do something that you don't see other player do.
I think both Nani and Babel have huge potential and keep showing patches of it.
Whereas someone like Wallcott is overrated and will never develop into a true world talent.

As for United, if we do get Benzema then we are setup for years to come.
I would also love to see Berbatov but he's to old for the money, Berbatov is a United type player though.

Exciting times ahead, Tevez is producing like I hoped he would.
Scholes back soon and I can't wait to see how Anderson will play with Scholes.

As for our Spanish friends.
They didn't mind when the Spanish government helped out when they were playing 40m+ for players like Zidane and Figo.

The Premiership is really developing into a very competitive league.
I can see Tottenham, Villa, Everton, West Ham, Liverpool and City all making strong challenges next season.
Maybe one of them will really develop and break into the group of top 3 teams.

Currently we have 3 teams constantly vying for the league.
We may have 4 or 5 soon, no other league compares to this.

And finally Porto, what can you say other than Premiership feeder club.

Originally posted by Rooney Once a Blue
And finally Porto, what can you say other than Premiership feeder club.

You could say: More successful than Manchester United in FIFA/UEFA tournaments.

For example.

Originally posted by Palynka
You could say: More successful than Manchester United in FIFA/UEFA tournaments.

For example.

You could say what happened to:-

Mourinhio?
Anderson?
McCarthy?
Ferriera?
Carvalho?
Deco - oh he's a La Liga flop?
Valente?
Maniche?
Costa - oh he went to France.
Alenitchev - oh he went to Russia.

Porto are a feeder club for the rest of Europe, especially the Premier League.
Face the facts my friend and weap.
How did it feal when Manchester United signed Anderson??????

ROFL.......

Also:-

Long Live Christiano Ronaldo and Nani :0)
Two Premier League players to make Portugal proud!

Long live Carlos Queiroz - keep on poaching the best of Portugal for the Premiership.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
I don't see the topic of discussion in the quoted point. It's just a statement of the obvious.

D

As obvious as the fact that English players are overrated and they
cannot get a job outside England?

The Euro Cup will be so nice without the ball flying all the time in the
air, kicked by Beckham towards a solitary Crouch, with all the
anglophiles crossing their fingers for some miracle to happen.

Would that be an interesting and heated topic of discussion?