Sox Yanks OR Pats Chargers?

I wasn't disputing the call. I was disputing your claim that some guy in Oakland knew the rule -- not that it is impossible -- just it far more likely that he said "oh yeah, i knew that rule".
The idea that the Patriots should not be punished for cheating because they were good anyway is a joke -- Bonds was Hall of Fame quality but he cheated. I'd rather see Ricky Williams and Michael Vick play (who gained no competitive advantage) than see Bellicheck's arrogant face. Bellicheck is like Bonds or McGuire or they are people who are clearly great but their whole entire legacy is tarnished by cheating and I believe fans need to recognize this even if it adversely affects the team they root for.

Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
I wasn't disputing the call. I was disputing your claim that some guy in Oakland knew the rule -- not that it is impossible -- just it far more likely that he said "oh yeah, i knew that rule".
The idea that the Patriots should not be punished for cheating because they were good anyway is a joke -- Bonds was Hall of Fame quality but he cheated. ...[text shortened]... I believe fans need to recognize this even if it adversely affects the team they root for.

The guy did know the rule, or he lied. He was a guest on the show, has a sports radio show in Oakland, and spent some time at Ref School for a report he was doing. There are also some players that go to ref school to better understand the rules of the game to help them play better.

I don't know why a Oakland caster would make up something like that, he's not even a pats fan.

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Maybe if he went to ref school he knew the rule, or maybe if he claimed he knows everything there is to know about football he said he knew the rule after the fact. It does not really matter that he is from Oakland. In fact, I am not sure why we are talking about some guy from Oakland.
I think the real issue is how much illegal enhancement tarnish your legacy. I'll remember Bonds and McGuire as cheaters and I will remember Bellicheck as a cheater as well. I was wondering if others will remember Bellicheck as a cheater also.

Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
Maybe if he went to ref school he knew the rule, or maybe if he claimed he knows everything there is to know about football he said he knew the rule after the fact. It does not really matter that he is from Oakland. In fact, I am not sure why we are talking about some guy from Oakland.
I think the real issue is how much illegal enhancement tarni ck as a cheater as well. I was wondering if others will remember Bellicheck as a cheater also.

Um, if he was from NE I wouldn't bother mentioning it. He was from the very city that was affected by the rule. Oakland raiders.

Here is another team for your list of cheats. Denver Broncos were found guilty of adjusting the salary cap in the mid 90's or so. You can probably expand your list a lot if you look into this stuff.

What's your team? I'll check into them for you also.

Oh, you seem to have left Jason Giambi off your list of cheats... and some other Yankees. Please update.

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Originally posted by Phlabibit
Um, if he was from NE I wouldn't bother mentioning it. He was from the very city that was affected by the rule. Oakland raiders.

Here is another team for your list of cheats. Denver Broncos were found guilty of adjusting the salary cap in the mid 90's or so. You can probably expand your list a lot if you look into this stuff.

What's your team? I ...[text shortened]... left Jason Giambi off your list of cheats... and some other Yankees. Please update.

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Still calling people "cheats" who supposedly did something that wasn't against the rules in existence at the time? Shame on you.

I am a Yankee fan and obviously Giambi cheats. Like most BALCO people he cheated most when he was out west (Oakland). That in and of itself causes a problem because the team that is punished would be Oakland and the player that is suspended would be Giambi. I think that he should be part of a long list that is punished and perhaps baseball is compiling that information now.
It just seems like the NFl did too little. The NBA did not like brawls. It punished the guys in the palace for a full year. They did not like Ricky Williams marijuana habit he was suspended. People don't like Michael Vick he probably gets suspended after he goes to jail. I would like to see significant punishment for the Patriots not a b.s. fine and the 30th pick in the draft.

Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
I am a Yankee fan and obviously Giambi cheats. Like most BALCO people he cheated most when he was out west (Oakland). That in and of itself causes a problem because the team that is punished would be Oakland and the player that is suspended would be Giambi. I think that he should be part of a long list that is punished and perhaps baseball is co to see significant punishment for the Patriots not a b.s. fine and the 30th pick in the draft.

"Obviously"???? Provide some evidence that Giambi has been using steroids since MLB passed rules and penalties against them.

EDIT: That would be 2002 at the earliest.

That's why if a commisioner were to punish a team it would be Oakland his former employer and not his current employer.
But no such issue exists with the Patriots and Bellicheck and the punishment was too light.

Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
That's why if a commisioner were to punish a team it would be Oakland his former employer and not his current employer.
But no such issue exists with the Patriots and Bellicheck and the punishment was too light.

You said Giambi "cheats". Cheating is breaking the rules to gain a competitive advantage. Baseball, unlike many other sports in the 1990's, did not pass any rules or penalties regarding the use of steroids to gain a supposed competitive advantage. In 2002, they kinda did so, though a strict policy wasn't adopted until 2005 due to sportswriter, talk radio and political pressure on MLB.

IF Giambi used steroids before 2002, he didn't "cheat". I haven't heard any evidence that he used steroids after 2002 when random testing of players was adopted along with the possibility of disciplinary actions should a player fail a drug test. If you have heard of such evidence, please share. If not, refrain from calling Giambi a cheat.

I agree that Belichik's and the Pat's "punishment" was too lenient esp. in comparison to some other punishments recently handed out by the NFL (particulary QB coach Wade Wilson's 5 game suspension for receiving shipments of steroids several years ago even though the NFL conceded he didn't give the steroids to anybody else and Ricky Williams' indefinite suspension for recreational pot use).

I would argue that illegally obtaining steriods/ HGH which likely have permanent benefits is cheating. MLB did not need to make rules against things that are already illegal and give a competitive advantage for those individuals to be cheaters.

Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
I would argue that illegally obtaining steriods/ HGH which likely have permanent benefits is cheating. MLB did not need to make rules against things that are already illegal and give a competitive advantage for those individuals to be cheaters.

So you can cheat by doing something that a sport doesn't have a rule against? Thanks for sharing.

I would argue that MLB's decision in the 1990's NOT to ban steroids when other sports were suggests that MLB did not believe that steroids granted any serious competitive advantage to those who used them (in baseball, that is).

Originally posted by no1marauder
Still calling people "cheats" who supposedly did something that wasn't against the rules in existence at the time? Shame on you.

Hey NumbOne... when is the last time you heard any player say, "Yeah, I did great and I owe it ALL to steroids!"

Why do you suppose no one says that?

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Originally posted by Phlabibit
Hey NumbOne... when is the last time you heard any player say, "Yeah, I did great and I owe it ALL to steroids!"

Why do you suppose no one says that?

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Because they don't believe it?

If it is against the law and gives a competitive advantage it is cheating. There is no reason to limit it to sports specific rules.

Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
If it is against the law and gives a competitive advantage it is cheating. There is no reason to limit it to sports specific rules.

If your claim is that it is cheating IN THAT SPORT, it sure is. As I pointed out above, the fact that MLB didn't ban them when other sports did is an indication that, at the time, MLB didn't believe that steroids did grant a competitive advantage in baseball.