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  1. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    01 Jan '11 21:41
    I was watching the Pinstripe Bowl where a kid's saluting of the crowd after scoring a TD got a 15 yard penalty that may very well have cost his team (Kansas State) the game. I found an article which points out that far from correcting this type of idiocy, the NCAA intends to worsen the situation next year:

    Next season, if a player draws an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty during the play, the penalty will wipe away the result of the play. For example, if a player high steps or unnecessarily dives into the end zone, the touchdown will be taken away and a 15-yard penalty will be assessed.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Top-official-says-controversial-bowl-calls-correct-123110

    Does anyone think this or the "excessive celebration" rule as it presently exists is a good one? Can't a 19 year old get a little excited when he makes a great play? What's the BFD?
  2. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    01 Jan '11 22:37
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I was watching the Pinstripe Bowl where a kid's saluting of the crowd after scoring a TD got a 15 yard penalty that may very well have cost his team (Kansas State) the game. I found an article which points out that far from correcting this type of idiocy, the NCAA intends to worsen the situation next year:

    Next season, if a player draws ...[text shortened]... d one? Can't a 19 year old get a little excited when he makes a great play? What's the BFD?
    Well, I believe they are trying to get back to the days when 19 years olds scored touchdowns and maintained control of themselves. You never saw this in the 60's or 70's or even the early 80's. The problem stems from the "look at me"..."look at what I did" craps that started in the pros and disgusts many people, including myself. There is no "I" in the word "team".

    Since the bulk of the players on the field are under scholarship to play, they should be bound to follow NCAA guidelines. If a kid pulls a stunt that gets his team penalized, they should rest his butt on the bench for the remainder of the game.

    Tell me that you don't watch the games to see what kinds of celebration individual players will exhibit after a play. I give you credit that your answer will be no. In college, we should emphasize sportsmanship as a paramount effort to be perpetually displayed.

    The only terrible thing in the scenario yesterday, is one kid's bonehead moment costs his team a probable victory forever. They all know the rules. Failure to maintain control and stay within those rules will cost you.
  3. 01 Jan '11 22:44
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I was watching the Pinstripe Bowl where a kid's saluting of the crowd after scoring a TD got a 15 yard penalty that may very well have cost his team (Kansas State) the game. I found an article which points out that far from correcting this type of idiocy, the NCAA intends to worsen the situation next year:

    Next season, if a player draws ...[text shortened]... d one? Can't a 19 year old get a little excited when he makes a great play? What's the BFD?
    That penalty being called made me sick indeed. There was way worse done during the Tennessee-UNC game that did not get called by a big ten crew. Exuberance beyond propportion might be one thing, but a simple salute, IMHO, violates none of the principles of the rule. It is a stupid penalty, decided upon by stpid officials who are blind to rule interpretation. Any penalty calling for so much judgment being used by an offical is a stupid rule indeed! These same people need about an hour's review time per game. How are they expected to gt judgment calls right if they cannot seem ti get regular cals right? It has become a game of sissies with a bunch of crybaby officals!
  4. 01 Jan '11 23:33
    I saw several times when a defensive player did like a muscle man pose or did some strutting and were not penalized for drawing attention to themselves. That jump and bump thy do draws attention does it not? Both the NCAA and the NFL are going to far in penailzing players for celebrating. All they need to deal with is taunting and/or disrespect which are unsportsmanlike conducts.
  5. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    02 Jan '11 03:17
    Originally posted by gambit3
    I saw several times when a defensive player did like a muscle man pose or did some strutting and were not penalized for drawing attention to themselves. That jump and bump thy do draws attention does it not? Both the NCAA and the NFL are going to far in penailzing players for celebrating. All they need to deal with is taunting and/or disrespect which are unsportsmanlike conducts.
    The problem is, they are saying that "excessive celebration" is taunting and showing disrespect. That is why they are going after them.

    But, I do agree that they need to assess the penalties of defenders who pound their chests, of stand over a downed man and taunt them. All of these types of behavior were a non factor when the game was a team sport.

    The excessive television coverage and youtube / internet...etc...has made it a "me fest" and too many of the hot dogs want everyone to look at them. The kids are pulling that crap in high school now.

    When coaches get burned enough times, they will take the game back from the players and put a stop to it. Let's face it, no one sees you doing anything when your butt is on the bench. There are way too many quality athletes out there to worry about kissing up to the players in college. Once they reach the pros, then it is all about dollars and perception, so the players get away with more...but if their actions start costing games to be lost, then they will feel the heat.
  6. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    02 Jan '11 04:21 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    The problem is, they are saying that "excessive celebration" [b]is taunting and showing disrespect. That is why they are going after them.

    But, I do agree that they need to assess the penalties of defenders who pound their chests, of stand over a downed man and taunt them. All of these types of behavior were a non factor when the game was a team h more...but if their actions start costing games to be lost, then they will feel the heat.[/b]
    People construct Dream Worlds; in sc's back in the magical world of 50 years ago no player ever celebrated by spiking a ball or pounding their chest.

    Tight asses like sc should relax a bit and let the kids have a little fun. Sorry, but everyone isn't an emotionless robot; football is a brutal, physical sport and players get emotional. So long as they don't actually taunt other players or do the type of ridiculous celebrations that once were common in the pros, the refs should keep their flags in their pocket. A salute to the fans or a fist pump or jumping after a sack isn't a big deal and shouldn't effect who wins or loses a game.

    sc: they will take the game back from the players

    Why would someone want to take the game away from the players?
  7. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    02 Jan '11 15:43
    I agree with the sentiments in this well-written article:

    I still can’t help but wonder what’s so wrong with showing emotion or expressing individuality on the field. You’ve practiced your whole life for these moments. You’re performing in front of thousands of screaming fans. You’ve given your team the lead and your adrenaline is pumping. You’re not supposed to celebrate? It’s the exclamation point at the end of a perfect sentence.

    NCAA Football Rule 9-2, Article 1(a)(1)(d) prohibits “Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves).” The rule allows for too much referee interpretation. We’ve seen players gather together and chest bump after a big play but who’s to decide what is acceptable and what warrants a penalty?

    Look, I used to coach. I preached the importance of sportsmanship. Win or lose, my kids would shake hands with the opponent and congratulate them on a game well-played. That’s what sports is all about. If a kid didn’t celebrate after hitting the winning basket, I’d assume something was wrong with him.

    Celebration occurs in every other organized sport, so why not college football? When a baseball player hits a walk-off home run, the entire dugout awaits his return to home plate. After a last second three-pointer, NBA players rush the floor. In the NFL, end zone dances have been made famous by many. When a tennis player hits a baseline winner at a crucial moment, there’s elation. When Tiger nails a birdie from twenty feet out, he pumps his fists. Even in other college sports, players are allowed to celebrate a job well done but not in college football. The muzzle has been tightly clamped.

    A football player has been conditioned all week to smash his opponent in the mouth. Asking him to suddenly squelch his emotions after scoring is akin to bringing home a Vietnam veteran, taking a weapon out of his hands and demanding he fit back into civil society.

    If I wanted dull, I’d read Russian literature or watch Jerry Sloan’s Hall of Fame induction speech. This is college football. I oppose taunting an opponent but the line between celebration and unsportsmanlike conduct is not as fine as the NCAA would have us believe. What’s to say officials are not as caught up in the moment as the other 100,000 people in the building?

    We are human beings, creatures of emotion. It’s what differentiates us from other animals on this planet. We celebrate and we mourn. We live, we laugh, we love. We are a nation of Kirks, not Spocks. Penalizing the college athlete for expressing emotion is not only unnecessary, it’s detrimental.

    LSU may have won Saturday’s game regardless but their victory was facilitated by the Green penalty which was questionable at best. Picture if you will, LSU advancing to the national championship game. Would they have done so with a mid-season loss in Athens, a loss that might have occurred had one man not been penalized for drawing too much attention to himself in the heat of the moment?

    In the end, it’s not about national championships. It’s about allowing people to express themselves within the context of the game. The time has come to modify the rule or at least its interpretation. Penalize players for taunting but let them celebrate. Everyone else in the stadium is.

    http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/dailyloaf/2009/10/05/making-the-case-for-excessive-celebration-in-college-football/
  8. 02 Jan '11 16:37
    Amen to all of that. My very sentiments as well. It is ridiculous to have such inconsistency and to leave so much open to interpretation. Som of these rules are too ambiguous for ref to interpret correctly or consistently. INdeed the biceps show violates the rule as written yet it never gets called. I never see flags when they do the first down motion either. It is terrible to penalize such a non-issue as excessive celebration. Unless it's the coreographed TO style celebrations. No room for premeditated stuff.
  9. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    02 Jan '11 18:35
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    People construct Dream Worlds; in sc's back in the magical world of 50 years ago no player ever celebrated by spiking a ball or pounding their chest.

    Tight asses like sc should relax a bit and let the kids have a little fun. Sorry, but everyone isn't an emotionless robot; football is a brutal, physical sport and players get emotional. So ...[text shortened]... he players

    Why would someone want to take the game away from the players?
    50 years ago?
    Try 20 years ago.
    Bogarts pound their chests.
    Players play the game.
    The celebration is in the victory, not the play.
    Of course, you never played, so you wouldn't understand.
    Sit in your armchair and pass judgment.
    Makes you no better than the wannabes who scribe the games anyway.
    You wouldn't understand the term "controlled aggression"
    You wouldn't understand the term "getting in your opponent's head"
    You wouldn't understand the term "playing under control"

    You fans of T.O. and his antics or Ochocinco and his antics, or Randy Moss...etc?
    That is playground stuff...not the game.
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    02 Jan '11 19:53 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    50 years ago?
    Try 20 years ago.
    Bogarts pound their chests.
    Players play the game.
    The celebration is in the victory, not the play.
    Of course, you never played, so you wouldn't understand.
    Sit in your armchair and pass judgment.
    Makes you no better than the wannabes who scribe the games anyway.
    You wouldn't understand the term "controlled aggre ocinco and his antics, or Randy Moss...etc?
    That is playground stuff...not the game.
    What a pompous jerk you are. And find somewhere, anywhere where I ever posted that I like the type of antics T.O. or Ocho or Moss did.

    Guess reading is too hard for a jackass like yourself:

    So long as they don't actually taunt other players or do the type of ridiculous celebrations that once were common in the pros, the refs should keep their flags in their pocket.
  11. 03 Jan '11 00:45
    No one ;likes antics, but spontaneous exuberance should not be penalized! No one likes TO or Ochocinco, but their mothers!
  12. Standard member RBHILL
    Acts 13:48
    03 Jan '11 01:34
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I was watching the Pinstripe Bowl where a kid's saluting of the crowd after scoring a TD got a 15 yard penalty that may very well have cost his team (Kansas State) the game. I found an article which points out that far from correcting this type of idiocy, the NCAA intends to worsen the situation next year:

    Next season, if a player draws ...[text shortened]... d one? Can't a 19 year old get a little excited when he makes a great play? What's the BFD?
    If he gets a penalty for that then for the nfl green bay packers I want them to get a penalty for jumping into the crowd.
  13. 03 Jan '11 03:00
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    If he gets a penalty for that then for the nfl green bay packers I want them to get a penalty for jumping into the crowd.
    Very good point. INdeed same rule exists in nfl and it never seems to get applied for jumping into the crowd. I don't want players to be reduced to unexcitable automatons. Scornig is tough. Gotta get kinda happy about scoring. If the KSt player had taunted anyone would have been one thing.
  14. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    03 Jan '11 04:12
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    If he gets a penalty for that then for the nfl green bay packers I want them to get a penalty for jumping into the crowd.
    See?? That type of crap is all hot dog stuff.
    What relevance does it serve?
  15. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    03 Jan '11 04:15 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    What a pompous jerk you are. And find somewhere, anywhere where I ever posted that I like the type of antics T.O. or Ocho or Moss did.

    Guess reading is too hard for a jackass like yourself:

    So long as they don't actually taunt other players or do the type of ridiculous celebrations that once were common in the pros, the refs should keep their flags in their pocket.
    Maybe YOU should learn to read butthead!!

    I didn't say you liked their antics, I postulated examples of why the penalties should be thrown. Perhaps I should not have allowed the word "Are" to be assumed in the sentence you take exception to.
    Surely you note the ? at the end of the statement which in the English language indicates a question?

    The celebrations have gotten way out of hand to point of being ludicrous.
    I think they should be flagged for jumping into the stands as well.
    Also for dunking the football over the crossbar.
    It has gotten to be a joke.