Tri-Nations Rugby 2009

Good on you Italy.. dominated the latest henry NZ 15 for most of the game.. but for some scrap from a couple of individuals you could have won this. Don't believe the score here.. The Italians played rugby the other side really didn't.

We do have to take a serious look at who will take NZ into the next WC. Maybe Clive Woodward with Warren Gatland and Colin Cooper.

This week Laurie Mains slammed Graeme Henry saying it was time for him to step down. Henry has fallen away in each of his last tenures with The Blues, Wales and now NZ.

Rotation has killed NZ top flight rugby.. viewer rating are down, stadium attendances are down and ask anyone around and no one can tell you who the names of the last All Black team. Difficult with 80 players on the selection list. The squad of 30 for the Tri Series is joke we know half with get rotated injured or wife pregnant or what ever the excuse of the day is.

We desperately need to be rid of him and rotation. A team needs to be built by slowly introducing players to your bench and letting them acclimatise to the higher level of test rugby. If you don't make places on the first 15 hard to come by you cheapen the role and lose the hard experience NZ rugby has always had.

The game against Italy showed that NZ no longer has the depth and basic skills that were once legendary.

Straight after the Tri Nations we need to take the abs back to basics.. pick a first 15 and ten more for a squad and take them into training camp with a few hard older stalwarts to kick some basics and self pride back into the team.

I'd actually support Laurie mains Griz Wylie and Buck Shelford running that camp and maybe even taking it through to the WC.

What an utterly unimpressive display from the world's best two teams.
It was the battle of the fetcher flankers and at least that was great to watch. Brussouw is an awesome find and either Jean Smith or Schalk Burger are gonna be warming the bench from now on... McCaw just showed his class once again.

Why, for the love of god, when we have Steyn slotting 60+ meter kicks, is Pienaar allowed to take the closer ones? It makes no sense!

I was away for the weekend at a very sad funeral of a guy way too young.

Listening to talk back sport radio on the way home the pundits here praised the SA locks as the worlds best pairing and heartily slammed the ab shambles saying Smith was the only one to show a touch of his class and they couldn't understand his subbing as no injury was announced.
They are lauding lots about PDV here saying he has a lot of pattern and solidity coming through... lots expect the margin to be bigger next week.

Congrats SA

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
I was away for the weekend at a very sad funeral of a guy way too young.

Listening to talk back sport radio on the way home the pundits here praised the SA locks as the worlds best pairing and heartily slammed the ab shambles saying Smith was the only one to show a touch of his class and they couldn't understand his subbing as no injury was announced.
...[text shortened]... rn and solidity coming through... lots expect the margin to be bigger next week.

Congrats SA

Snorre is an idiot, riding the coattails of Jake White. This game just showed again that the bok team needs an imaginative coach and it isn't PDV.
The game could have gone either way easily, as both teams made amateur mistakes... Although I think the boks did force the ABs into making more mistakes than they are used to.

Victor and Bakkies are the best lock combo I've ever seen, if only Victor will learn that he is not a center.

Originally posted by Crowley
Snorre is an idiot, riding the coattails of Jake White. This game just showed again that the bok team needs an imaginative coach and it isn't PDV.
The game could have gone either way easily, as both teams made amateur mistakes... Although I think the boks did force the ABs into making more mistakes than they are used to.

Victor and Bakkies are the best lock combo I've ever seen, if only Victor will learn that he is not a center.

I stick by what I've said since 5 months before the last cup: its' the worst period of mistake ridden rugby I've ever seen in ab history. 8 dropped balls in a game never happened in the past ... it's now accepted. The ab doctrine was about role modelling and doing things text book correctly from the way the ball id protected under the arm to way it is grounded with two hands and the way tackles are made. The abs have thrown away the book.
There was a panel discussion going about the SA side and they were pretty much heaping praise on PDV.. pretty sure their were interviews with the senior players saying the same..they seem like the guy.
Anyway having seen the chiefs get their beans I'd say we are miles off the pace and stature of SA at present and would not have NZ in the top 5 teams .. the Aussies make progress every game, the SA's just seem to get stronger and I believe do the basics very well and are on the verge of great things.. you can see it. Our lot are going backwards.

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
I stick by what I've said since 5 months before the last cup: its' the worst period of mistake ridden rugby I've ever seen in ab history. 8 dropped balls in a game never happened in the past ... it's now accepted. The ab doctrine was about role modelling and doing things text book correctly from the way the ball id protected under the arm to way it is grou ...[text shortened]... well and are on the verge of great things.. you can see it. Our lot are going backwards.

I wouldn't be that negative. The ABs were always the innovators and most imaginative players (and team) IMO. You still are, there just seems to be a little lack of confidence and continuity in the AB play.

Once those passes start to stick you guys will run circles around everyone again. Maybe.

It just seems like better defensive patterns are stifling the All Black play now and you guys a bitterly missing Carter.

Originally posted by Crowley
I wouldn't be that negative. The ABs were always the innovators and most imaginative players (and team) IMO. You still are, there just seems to be a little lack of confidence and continuity in the AB play.

Once those passes start to stick you guys will run circles around everyone again. Maybe.

It just seems like better defensive patterns are stifling the All Black play now and you guys a bitterly missing Carter.

I'm hurting re the abs at the moment as it's tearing me apart trying to remember back to when the back line was slick and didn't drop the ball. Trying harder to remember further back to when the eight had a modicum of dominance and forward momentum. Still further to when we had a half back first five pairing that could operate shallow and deep... Even trying to remember who is actually in the NZ side is difficult as there are 80 on the team list and they slip new ones into the 30 every week with whatever excuse they can.

Yes the abs had become predictable and yes the abs has a lond playing schedule but rotation is killing the game for the sake of what?

If I was a first 15 player you'd have to do me in to take my jersey.

You SA guys still have that base ethic.. we've thrown it away under this idiot Henry and under Jock Hobbs Steve Tew and co and NZRU and it's a crime to NZ. Yes we show bits of promise and get the wins but how and will we win the wc? Sadly I don't care any more I just want to watch a 3pm kick off game on a Sunday afternoon and see the ball passed from a ruck to the wing without the ball going down. Bug r tv and bug r rotation.

Bring on CapeTown, the Boks are going down.

Regarding rotation - I hate to say it as I wasn't an advocate at the start - but it worked. Last year when our top players were out injured, we had depth to win the tri nations. But last year we also had less rotation than previously, and so this year when Henry has had to deal with injuries we haven't had someone to to step up.
And if you look at the two positions which wasn't rotated as much as others were McCaw and Carter, so no depth in those positions and is it the reason for their sustained injuries?

I don't think Henry does rotate against the big teams. Halfback wasn't rotation, It was best players for the job, for the day, and if Leonard was fit and match ready he would have played better. But Cowan probably should have started in hindsight because he was match ready, with Weepu on the bench. Leonard, probably the best half back in NZ, would then struggle to get another game this year for the AB's. But it was tactical - not rotation.

Donald is a problem for us, one dimensional, he'd be a brilliant league player. Up and unders and run.

Isaac Ross is our success story so far.

And while performaces against France and Italy left alot to be desired, we had to see all the players in action. Our scrum was dominated in those games - though I have a feeling we let it be - as we stepped up to the mark against Aus and SA. The Aus game restored alot of my faith.

I agree the remarks of drop balls and accountability for it etc etc and it feels that we seem to have lost the passion, about what being an all black is, but it IS about money now and we can't change that.

This major difference between the SA rugby team and the AB's is the amount of passion. And while I think that PDV is a bit of an idiot, maybe that is what he adds to the SA team? I don't really know in this regard - but SA seem to be more urgent, more passionate, and love to play and win (and this is in every game). We just don't seem to have the same desire, another day in the office for us - but if we find it, rest of world look out.

Brian "Bluey" Mclennan for all black coach.

Originally posted by abigham
Regarding rotation - I hate to say it as I wasn't an advocate at the start - but it worked. Last year when our top players were out injured, we had depth to win the tri nations. But last year we also had less rotation than previously, and so this year when Henry has had to deal with injuries we haven't had someone to to step up.
And if you look at the two ...[text shortened]... we find it, rest of world look out.

Brian "Bluey" Mclennan for all black coach.

I thought about the injury situation and and the tactical changes but really just think thats pr for rotation. Many shot through over seas and conveniently came back.. yeah right? I just can't or at least don't believe a word they say. Listening to Laurie Mains slam them, deaker defended but has now changed his mind.. The normally verbose Andy Haden was quiet but is joining the turn.

I honestly wouldn't mind changes if their was some continuity in play. The basics are not being coached properly and the mistakes and lack of skills are showing through at the wrong times. It shows us out.

I like Cowan around the ruck, Leonard in the open play and Weepu as an off the ground passer but none have instinctive distribution or generalship and all appear laboured.

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
[b]I honestly wouldn't mind changes if their was some continuity in play. The basics are not being coached properly and the mistakes and lack of skills are showing through at the wrong times. It shows us out.

And I couldn't agree more here. Which is why I think it comes down to urgency and passion. The new kid on the block Isaac Ross showing people up, Jerome Kaino proving he should be on the blind have been playing well, even Donald has stepped up a notch, and these are the players with the most heat on them. But the all black team as a whole aren't playing cohesively. Rotation shouldn't be an excuse (and I understand that you weren't pinning it as an excuse). It just comes down to good old fashioned grit and determination and its all about looking after that pill.

I watched the SA Lions games, and I was scared of when we had to face SA. SA looked as though they will do anything to win, and I like seeing that in a team. I look at our team lining up, they do the haka because its expected and then they look lost again.

I liked Henry at the start, but change is good. It feels like he's missing something, as though he can't follow through on what he really wants to do. And so in that regard I'd hate for whoever the next coach is to have to deal with the NZRFU because of Henry's era.

Random ramblings.

I wish it wasnt raining in Edgbaston, as I want Aus to thrash England. Not because I like Australia, but because I like watching England lose.

Originally posted by abigham
And I couldn't agree more here. Which is why I think it comes down to urgency and passion. The new kid on the block Isaac Ross showing people up, Jerome Kaino proving he should be on the blind have been playing well, even Donald has stepped up a notch, and these are the players with the most heat on them. But the all black team as a whole aren't playing c ...[text shortened]... thrash England. Not because I like Australia, but because I like watching England lose.

Lol.. agreed with everything in your post except the rain,, lol I'm still a pom born ans blood and hate to see the Aussies win at anything haha.

The thing Henry is missing is basic coaching. Maybe he needs to kick Wayne Smith into running a big long session on passing and catching chasing them around with his schoolmasters cane.

kaino at 6 would be good. Mils is off sorts a worry.

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
Lol.. agreed with everything in your post except the rain,, lol I'm still a pom born ans blood and hate to see the Aussies win at anything haha.

The thing Henry is missing is basic coaching. Maybe he needs to kick Wayne Smith into running a big long session on passing and catching chasing them around with his schoolmasters cane.

kaino at 6 would be good. Mils is off sorts a worry.

Congratulations SA and pat on the back for Mort Steyn with his Tri-Nations Record scoring all 31pts in their 31-22 victory over NZ.

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
Congratulations SA and pat on the back for Mort Steyn with his Tri-Nations Record scoring all 31pts in their 31-22 victory over NZ.

Morne Steyn: I ws really hoping for for him to get a drop kick. That would have completed and equalled a famous treble - scoring a try, kicking it and also a drop. This was back in the old days.

What a wonderful, commanding performance from SA today, helped in part from woeful handling and passing by the AB's (Tivivatu being notably dreadful) - but you can only play as well as you're allowed to. That said, I felt some of the basic skills of passing and handling were missing from the AB's. Ref was a bit pedantic but consistent, so no complaints there.