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  1. Utrecht
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    28 Apr '12 00:40
    Originally posted by scacchipazzo
    I don't argue with good yellows, but yellows for arguing are absurd! Too authoritarian. I would much rather see a power play style rule than outright ejections, especially for silly stuff like being last player and committing a foul. PK and ejection seems too much!I would also love for the tip of the elbow offsides to not eb called and offense given ben ...[text shortened]... ering goal and out of play called only when ball fully out. Football si a strange sport indeed!
    Once I was a young fast player in beer belly squad hitting nothing with club refs who had a dubious whistle. But hey, he was sweating his *ss off in his spare time and it was all accepted that he was human and could make a mistake. He had a big belly too. And yes they were all authoritorian, pretty dumb, but he made our mouths shut, cause you didn't want to get sent off in the weekly big fun on saturday afternoon. 'Aaaaah ref' was all.
    In the amature leagues, refs are beaten and kicked off the pitch, are chased, are threatened with their lives. All these so called rights to argue are partly responsible for such behaviour. Football players are little children who want to win and hate to lose and have the tendency to make the other pay for whatever. They need guidance and authority to stick to the rules of the game or else they show what badness they have in their sleeves. So yes, the ref is the boss and you as a player have to accept whatever he says. Respect the ref, respect your opponent. Always.

    Powerplay in football is often not an advantage.
    I believe it's a disgrace when the last defender takes his opponent down. First, it's part of the game one is faster/smarter than you are, and secondly; there's still your goalkeeper. Don't you have any trust in him? it happens achance is missed. And don't you have any trust that you are able to score a goal as well? Stay home then and play chess 😉

    Just like as it is with hockey (any ball on your foot in the circle, on purposely so or not, is a penalty corner), any handball in the box is a penalty. A handball is a handball, period. Stretching the rules leads to more agression in football.
    Agree on the off side suggestion.
    With your note about the ball fully cross the line (Wembley 1966 and more), don't you agree video control should be aloud to make the right descision?
  2. Utrecht
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    28 Apr '12 00:49
    Originally posted by divegeester
    A compromise could be to disregard yellows but not straight reds. Players may be a little less worried about their first yellow in a semi-final but they still won't want to risk being sent off in a game of that importance.
    No. The game is fast, the acting sometimes worth an Oscar, a ref can make the wrong judgement with just a yellow, or even no card at all, but a player can forget the rest of his season recovering, or never get back to the level he was at that moment. When a player wants to play the final, he should know that. You may expect a player is not only cashing millions for being a good player, but use his brain too. That comes with such a salary.
  3. Account suspended
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    28 Apr '12 10:06
    Originally posted by Sake
    Once I was a young fast player in beer belly squad hitting nothing with club refs who had a dubious whistle. But hey, he was sweating his *ss off in his spare time and it was all accepted that he was human and could make a mistake. He had a big belly too. And yes they were all authoritorian, pretty dumb, but he made our mouths shut, cause you didn't want to get ...[text shortened]... 6 and more), don't you agree video control should be aloud to make the right descision?
    an excellent post, there should be no right to argue, you dont see any of that nonsense
    in rugby or cricket, nor in American football, heck i am sure if you lay a finger on an
    official in the NFL you get sent off. Its one of the most off putting parts of the game of
    football, that and those that dive for penalties and the reluctance to embrace
    technologies in the name of fair play.
  4. Utrecht
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    28 Apr '12 12:07
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    an excellent post, there should be no right to argue, you dont see any of that nonsense
    in rugby or cricket, nor in American football, heck i am sure if you lay a finger on an
    official in the NFL you get sent off. Its one of the most off putting parts of the game of
    football, that and those that dive for penalties and the reluctance to embrace
    technologies in the name of fair play.
    Yeah something like that. When something happens that needs further attention, stop the game, analyse video positions and make a descision.
    Not only the boxdivers should get a card, any diver should.
    Elbows, beating/kicking, spitting and all other purposefully rough attacks on body parts should be awarded with a minimum of let's say half a year and should be brought to trial. Terry with a sandwichboard "I kicked somebody and I am sorry' brooming the streets as a punishment is a priceless picture 😉
    Suarez with such a board 'I always wanted to be a diver' cleaning the windows inside 'Sealife'..... love it 😵
  5. Joined
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    28 Apr '12 13:59
    Originally posted by Sake
    Once I was a young fast player in beer belly squad hitting nothing with club refs who had a dubious whistle. But hey, he was sweating his *ss off in his spare time and it was all accepted that he was human and could make a mistake. He had a big belly too. And yes they were all authoritorian, pretty dumb, but he made our mouths shut, cause you didn't want to get ...[text shortened]... 6 and more), don't you agree video control should be aloud to make the right descision?
    I see your points and I don't. The powerplay I envision would send off the offending player and the best defender for five minutes. Bet that would temper on field badness. I wish video were allowed for all controversial calls as well as goal line. I don't want the game slowed down too much, but game changing calls should all be reviewed. I have seen very few PK's for example, where it has not involved a dive. Perhaps it is time for more sidelines refs to assist field ref. Games moves too fast for only one man. Goal line cameras should have been started a long time ago and certainly after the Germany-England WC game in 2010 it should have been the last straw.

    I detest the yellows for arguing. In American football you can argue as long as you don't curse or touch the ref. If a flag is thrown there is no yellow, but a 15 yard penalty, enough to hamper the offending team. I do agree with yellows for faking. Some of my favorite players are the best divers/fakers. I love Robben for example, but he does not always play the game with honesty!
  6. Joined
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    28 Apr '12 14:46
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    He believed in the Sky hype over Barelona and Lionel Messi ( a great player but not in the Maradona Class.)
    No, to my knowledge he's never intentionally scored with his hand and then blasphemed. He's not a nice guy (most geniuses, both physical and mental ones, aren't), but he isn't as much of a s**tbag as Maradona.

    And yes, he's going through a rough patch - as do all players at all levels - and yes, Barcelona depend far too much on him alone. Goodness knows why - they have Iniesta, after all. Whatever you may say for Guardiola - which is a lot - this must count against him.

    Sky have to sell a product and hype these teams and players like they are something incredible and never been seen before. They lost millions in it not being a Barcelone - Real Maddrid Final.

    I have news for you - it's not just the Murdoch Jobbies who like Barcelona. They're considered the best team in the world - except for their current "bad" (i.e., not quite as brilliant as the last few years) form - in several countries where Sky does not broadcast Reveal Hidden Content
    (ether be thanked)
    .

    Bayern Munich should win it. It's a home game without the away leg.
    3-1 is what I'm dropping £10.00 on though would not mind one bit if Chelsea won it.

    Whoever wins it, it will be a disgusting, defending, counter-playing team, with no sense of style or flair. Frankly, I'm disappointed that you, of all people, would side with the Schlechters of football.

    Richard
  7. Joined
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    28 Apr '12 14:55
    Originally posted by scacchipazzo
    I am rooting for Chelsea all the way! I wish soccer had a better way than these silly yellow card suspensions. I'd love a powerplay style rule like hockey rather than hampering a team so much and ruining a player's dream of playing in a final. Or at least a review of the yellows via video to see if these were good yellows. Some are silly. Why should arguing with a ref be as bad as a bad tackle, for example?
    There's nothing silly about it. Ask any rugby player (the thugs' game played by gentlemen!): you do not argue with the ref. Full Stop. As for the bad tackle, if it's bad enough, it should be a red, not a yellow. Too often the referee doesn't dare give the red, even when it's clearly deserved. If more referees kept closer to the rules, rather than chickening out in the face of the rabid fans, football would be a cleaner game - and fewer people would have the bad taste to argue with the ref in the first place..

    Richard
  8. Joined
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    28 Apr '12 15:23
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    There's nothing silly about it. Ask any rugby player (the thugs' game played by gentlemen!): you do not argue with the ref. Full Stop. As for the bad tackle, if it's bad enough, it should be a red, not a yellow. Too often the referee doesn't dare give the red, even when it's clearly deserved. If more referees kept closer to the rules, rather than ...[text shortened]... fewer people would have the bad taste to argue with the ref in the first place..

    Richard
    No argument there. I still think of the ref who failed to eject De Jong in WC final after the karate kick on the Spanish player. Was it Xavi? That was horrible and a real travesty. That said, however, arguing with a ref in a respectful manner should never be disallowed. It happens in American football all the time. Ensures that the next call is gotten right. I know nothing about rugby to even venture the remotest comment. Football will never get cleaned up until such time as a real effort to eliminate divers is taken! Here's an example. More often than not I see a bald faced diver then get hacked in retaliation. Perhaps an extra ref at least at goal line could look at plays from a different angle and assist field ref with calls.
  9. Utrecht
    Joined
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    28 Apr '12 18:06
    Originally posted by scacchipazzo
    I see your points and I don't. The powerplay I envision would send off the offending player and the best defender for five minutes. Bet that would temper on field badness. I wish video were allowed for all controversial calls as well as goal line. I don't want the game slowed down too much, but game changing calls should all be reviewed. I have seen ve ...[text shortened]... divers/fakers. I love Robben for example, but he does not always play the game with honesty!
    It's worth a try, though I believe it's not enough. A 5 minute powerplay in football is not that much of an advantage. I prefer sending off for touching the ref and arguing. And not just a two/three game suspension. Hit 'm big. It's a sport and just because of that everyone on the pitch should be a sport.

    It's these tv images that give parents and children of FC Sillybourough the idea it's ok to question the ref loudly all the time. In the dutch amature leagues more and more games need to be cancelled because less and less men are willing to be the ref because of the arguing and fysical abuse. Among other things, this is the result of it.

    On the other hand, the ref himself should stick to the rule as well. Too many times the ref himself is afraid to sent one off just because such a decision will kill the match? Or it's because it's the last minute is not the moment to give a PK. Or a first yellow is given for arguing, but for a second one they are reluctant.
  10. Joined
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    28 Apr '12 22:52
    Originally posted by Sake
    It's worth a try, though I believe it's not enough. A 5 minute powerplay in football is not that much of an advantage. I prefer sending off for touching the ref and arguing. And not just a two/three game suspension. Hit 'm big. It's a sport and just because of that everyone on the pitch should be a sport.

    It's these tv images that give parents and children ...[text shortened]... e a PK. Or a first yellow is given for arguing, but for a second one they are reluctant.
    Arguing by parents should never be allowed. Honest refs should make the calls regardless of time of game or hampering of spectacle. A foul's a foul. Perhaps a prematch talk with the players as to how tight a match will be called is in order like in the NBA. THat said, however, basketball has many more judgment calls than football does. I deplore arguing for arguing's sake. Arguments should be real. In a recent American football game in the playoffs we got the benefir of watching a miked up game. PLayer/ref arguments are very respectful. IN a Patriot's game a player came up to the ref a play or so later and told him he called a foul in his favor and confessed there was no foul! That was refreshing to hear!
  11. Utrecht
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    02 May '12 18:48
    Originally posted by scacchipazzo
    Arguing by parents should never be allowed. Honest refs should make the calls regardless of time of game or hampering of spectacle. A foul's a foul. Perhaps a prematch talk with the players as to how tight a match will be called is in order like in the NBA. THat said, however, basketball has many more judgment calls than football does. I deplore arguing ...[text shortened]... m he called a foul in his favor and confessed there was no foul! That was refreshing to hear!
    Refs should, but they don't. Why?
    First, all 'experts', commentators stretch the rules with quotes like 'an unintentional handball' or ' not a troublesome off side', sorry for this translation but an off side player who doesn't take part in the game (another strange argument). Probably lots more examples to tell.
    The other thing is the player who kicked another in the hospital getting the whole stage on tv to tell he was innocent. Or the same thing in case of yellows/reds for arguing, when the public can't tell what he said, for we don't have that on tape. A mike in the game might be something to explore. All the arguing I see, not hear, looks angry and agressive. A mike could bring back more respect.
    But I think the ref should lead the game, but he should be supervised/supported by other refs not inside the field and video images. Than he is not to blame, but the rules and that brings more peace ont hte pitch.
  12. Utrecht
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    02 May '12 18:53
    No, to my knowledge he's never intentionally scored with his hand and then blasphemed. He's not a nice guy (most geniuses, both physical and mental ones, aren't), but he isn't as much of a s**tbag as Maradona.

    So true. And Maradonna was diver, a moaner and did make some terrible
    fouls, in where De Jong looked like a sissy.
  13. Joined
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    04 May '12 12:06
    Originally posted by Sake
    First, all 'experts', commentators stretch the rules with quotes like 'an unintentional handball' or ' not a troublesome off side', sorry for this translation but an off side player who doesn't take part in the game (another strange argument).
    Who was it again who said, after the latest change to the rules, that "if you're not interfering with play, what are you doing on the field in the first place?" Some Limey, I think. Whoever it was, he was right.

    Richard
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