What will the Beckham bashers do now?

petrosianpupil View Profile

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07 Jun '07 09:29

blade68
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09 Jun '07 08:40
I'll chuck my two pen'orth in now...

When SM dropped Becks from the England squad I believed it was a mistake even though he wasn't playing that well (neither was anyone else). I thought McClaren had done it just to show that he was now the man in charge.
I was amazed when SM did a u-turn, I think he showed a lot of humility, it was a bold decision to admit that he's got it wrong.
Looking at the games v Brazil and Estonia, it's obvious Becks has given the whole team a lift - welcome back!

DB is still good for next years Euro Finals.
petrosianpupil
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09 Jun '07 10:08
Originally posted by Rooney Once a Blue
How about:-

Rooney
Richardson Scholes Carrick Hargreaves Beckham
P Neville Ferdinand Brown G Neville
Foster

Scholes would come out of retirement to play in this side.
The thread is about England and world class footballers, not ball boys.

Stick to the topic!

P.S. Allowing scholes to retire was a crime. What other Englishman since Ball can do the simple stuff so well.
petrosianpupil
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09 Jun '07 10:46
Originally posted by Rooney Once a Blue
Lampard is available for about 10m if anyone wants him.
Any player who has been at a club for more than 3 years is over 25 and has 2 years or less on his contract can buy out his contract using a formula to work out the price.

This is a new rule and Lampard can now buy out his contract for about 9 or 10m.
Manchester United are going to Lose H ...[text shortened]... player of class because he is basically very one dimensional with a great shot (at times).
You seem to forget that the player has to want to leave.

You and Angry boy slate his performances this season. Yet Actim place him as the 5th most valuable player in the Prem this year. When individual performances over the whole season where analysed only Drogba, Ronaldo, Berbatov and Rooney put in more influencial performances. Such is the strength of the premiership Gerrard only came 17th.

You say he is a luxury player? Seems professional analysts see it different.

Ignore the hacks who know nothing and want to make a name for themselves by slagging off our true stars.
Rooney Once a Blue
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09 Jun '07 14:57
Originally posted by petrosianpupil
The thread is about England and world class footballers, not ball boys.

Stick to the topic!

P.S. Allowing scholes to retire was a crime. What other Englishman since Ball can do the simple stuff so well.
I can see Beckham in the team, can't you, or he he surrounded by too many other stars.

I'm pointing out how Beckham should be brought back and expanding it a little by showing how to make England into a better side.

It may look a little biased, but think about it.
That England side would actually be very competitive.
Rooney Once a Blue
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09 Jun '07 15:311 edit
Originally posted by petrosianpupil
You seem to forget that the player has to want to leave.

You and Angry boy slate his performances this season. Yet Actim place him as the 5th most valuable player in the Prem this year. When individual performances over the whole season where analysed only Drogba, Ronaldo, Berbatov and Rooney put in more influencial performances. Such is the streng ...[text shortened]... he hacks who know nothing and want to make a name for themselves by slagging off our true stars.
I thought you wanted to stick to the topic, why are you replying to an old post and changing the topic?
My post mentioned Beckham yours does not.

Anyway, do you agree with Actim placing Frank as the 5th most valuable player in the premiership?

Lets take Tevez for example, whould you rate Lampard's individual performances over those of Carlos Tevez last season?

Let me think some more, Gerrard, Terry, Woodgate, Foster, Scholes, Bale, Lennon, Giggs, Carrigar, Vidic, Evra, Van Persie.
I could go on and on......

The point is Lampard plays every game for Chelsea, he's a luxary that usually just tries to take a shot at goal, and he has players all around him that want to give him the ball.

Can you ever remember Lampard, getting the ball, taking it past a player and creating a goal for himself?

I'm not trashing Lampard he is a good player, just not in the top class.
He has great players all around him doing the work for him so he can have a shot at goal.

Why was Lampard not in the Premiership top 11 rated players for the season, the team of the season for the premiership?
The reason is because anyone who followed the premiership knows Lampard was nowhere near being in the top 11 players of the season.

I could easily name 11 midfield players that when played in the premiership had better performances than Lampard.

I could arguably name 5 midfield players from Chelsea alone that as the premiership season settled were better than Lampard: Essien, SWP, J Cole, Robben, Ballack.

Some of the players needed time to adapt and some did not play that many games.
So you really think Lampard had a better season than Essien?
Ballack was clearly better than Lampard towards the end of the season, once he started adapting to the English game.

So do you stand by your post that you agree with Actim and would rate Lampard as the 5th most valuable player in the premiership, or did you use statistics to state a poor case?

Tevez or Lampard hmmmmm.....
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09 Jun '07 15:38
Originally posted by Rooney Once a Blue
I can see Beckham in the team, can't you, or he he surrounded by too many other stars.
Every player I mentioned has played for England, what you talking about?

I'm pointing out how Beckham should be brought back and expanding it a little by showing how to make England into a better side.

It may look a little biased, but think about it.
That England side would actually be very competitive.
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11 Jun '07 12:52
Originally posted by Rooney Once a Blue
I thought you wanted to stick to the topic, why are you replying to an old post and changing the topic?
My post mentioned Beckham yours does not.

Anyway, do you agree with Actim placing Frank as the 5th most valuable player in the premiership?

Lets take Tevez for example, whould you rate Lampard's individual performances over those of Carlo ...[text shortened]... premiership, or did you use statistics to state a poor case?

Tevez or Lampard hmmmmm.....
You have a point in that 5th place overates Lampard and certainly i see Gerrard who only came 17th as better. I do not say I agreed with the stats but pointed out the stats are compiled in a very objective manor.

But i really do see Lampard as MUCH better than you say. If a player can score from areas that very few others can then that is better than having to try and dribble it through. Your same arguments can be used with Scholes who passes through defences rather than dribbles. The goal lampard set up for the FA cup final was typical of Lampard; Great passing, great strength on the ball, tremendous levels of fitness.

To call him a luxury player is just a joke. Better than Essien, probably not but its a close call. Most of the rest then definitely better and definitely close to the top 11 players.
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11 Jun '07 16:30
Originally posted by petrosianpupil
You have a point in that 5th place overates Lampard and certainly i see Gerrard who only came 17th as better. I do not say I agreed with the stats but pointed out the stats are compiled in a very objective manor.

But i really do see Lampard as MUCH better than you say. If a player can score from areas that very few others can then that is better ...[text shortened]... close call. Most of the rest then definitely better and definitely close to the top 11 players.
Lampard is a very good player, but I would persoanlly rather have Makelele, Essien or Robben ahead of him and Duff, Chelsea should never of sold him.

You are right that Lampard can pass a good ball but he does not do it consistetly enough for me.

Scholes does it all, goals, assists and build up play.

How do you explain though that he does not seem to be able to play well with another central attacking midfield player?

Scholes, Giggs, Gerrard, Viera, Keane can/could all play as an attacking central midfield player, along side another one.

Lampard to be at is best needs Essien and/or Makalele behind him and 2 wingers.
I think its because his short passing game is not that strong, but the rest of his game is very strong.

So he is a very good player just not in the class of the 5 players above.

When chelsea shape the team to his strengths he is not a luxary, when he has do do some hard work without covering players, he is in my opoinion a luxary.
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11 Jun '07 18:01
Originally posted by Rooney Once a Blue
Lampard is a very good player, but I would persoanlly rather have Makelele, Essien or Robben ahead of him and Duff, Chelsea should never of sold him.

You are right that Lampard can pass a good ball but he does not do it consistetly enough for me.

Scholes does it all, goals, assists and build up play.

How do you explain though that he does ...[text shortened]... uxary, when he has do do some hard work without covering players, he is in my opoinion a luxary.
You name some exceptional midfielders in that list and some are better. But many of the chelsea ones are on the bench or out of position. The special one always keeps Lamps in place and always plays him.

Compared with Scholes and Makele his short passing is not as good but still classy.

It is a bit of a hacks myth that he can't play with other attacking players. Gerrard has been england's best player since Euro 2004 and Lampard was easily our second best at euro 2004. Against Portugal, Gerrard and Lamps were unbelievable against a Portugal side that has its strength in midfield. They missed their penalties through exhaustion.
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11 Jun '07 18:16
Originally posted by petrosianpupil
You name some exceptional midfielders in that list and some are better. But many of the chelsea ones are on the bench or out of position. The special one always keeps Lamps in place and always plays him.

Compared with Scholes and Makele his short passing is not as good but still classy.

It is a bit of a hacks myth that he can't play with other ...[text shortened]... rtugal side that has its strength in midfield. They missed their penalties through exhaustion.
We all see games from our own point of view.

There is no doubt that Lampard is very good and actually perfect for Chelsea if he plays in the middle behind the strikers on his own.
But hid did not play that well for Chelsea before Makele arrived.

Also I don't think its a myth that Lampard struggles with other attacking players the reasons being:-
- Since Scholes left England, Lampard (his replacement) has not formed a strong partnership with anyone
- Englands big problem is keeping the ball in midfield, players making space (Lampard) and linking the midfield to attack (Lampard)
- Ballack can't play effectively with Lampard, again they are too similar and he can't adapt.
- Again Lampard and Gerrard just does not work
- Lampard did nothing really at Chelsea until Makele arrived

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What will the Beckham bashers do now?