World Champions? Really?

Originally posted by FMF
Indeed. But does that mean that they are "the World Champions"? You - quite rightly, I feel, and more often than not, tellingly - hold other posters to a higher standard of accuracy and justification, day after day here.

Ragnorak asked you pointedly: "Why do you believe that competition is unnecessary to make absurd claims of World sporting supremacy?" That' ...[text shortened]... ind - is international competition unnecessary to decide the best competitor in the world?

There's nothing "absurd" about facing facts. Do the Celtics have to play the NCAA Division I basketball champion to "prove" they are better? Of course not. Following the logic Ragnorak is using, the Celts would have to play every intramural squad of accountants world wide or they can't be considered what they are - the best team in the world. Surely, THAT is absurd, not declaring what every basketball fan knows is true.

Originally posted by no1marauder
There's nothing "absurd" about facing facts. Do the Celtics have to play the NCAA Division I basketball champion to "prove" they are better? Of course not. Following the logic Ragnorak is using, the Celts would have to play every intramural squad of accountants world wide or they can't be considered what they are - the best team in the world. Surely, THAT is absurd, not declaring what every basketball fan knows is true.

Fumble.

Not up to your usual standards. Nor the standards you hold others to.

Originally posted by no1marauder
No it doesn't; your post is a complete non sequitur.

No it isn't. Name 1 sport played in countries other than America, where the national champion is branded "World Champion".

America have numerous examples (in sport and otherwise), which follow from the outspoken, unproven belief of some Americans that the US is the greatest, most free country in the world.

If you can't see that declaring a team which has only competed against teams from it's own country as "World Champions" is a continuation of the "Greatest Country in the World" syndrome, then, I'm afraid I don't know what to do.

D
"Greatest Sports Debater in the World"

Originally posted by FMF
Fumble.

Not up to your usual standards. Nor the standards you hold others to.

Do you have an actual argument?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Do the Celtics have to play the NCAA Division I basketball champion to "prove" they are better?

Interesting that you chose another American team to support your point. 😀

Could you address your earlier point about Tiger Woods. Are you maintaining that declaring a sportsperson/team who have competed against the best in the world as "World's best" is EXACTLY the same as declaring a sportsperson/team who have only competed against competitors from their own nation as "World's Best" ?

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
No it isn't. Name 1 sport played in countries other than America, where the national champion is branded "World Champion".

America have numerous examples (in sport and otherwise), which follow from the outspoken, unproven belief of some Americans that the US is the greatest, most free country in the world.

If you can't see that declaring a team which ...[text shortened]... n, I'm afraid I don't know what to do.

D
"Greatest Sports Debater in the World"

You don't know what to do because you're an imbecile.

I'm still waiting for somebody to dispute that the NBA isn't a league consisting of the strongest teams and best players in the world. Until someone does (and presents some actual facts that support such an argument), the Celtics, as NBA champs, can legitimately claim they are the best team in the world.

What some people claim regarding other things isn't relevant. Not every subject can be reduced to the righteous bleating of Euros about arrogant Americans.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Interesting that you chose another American team to support your point. 😀

Could you address your earlier point about Tiger Woods. Are you maintaining that declaring a sportsperson/team who have competed against the best in the world as "World's best" is EXACTLY the same as declaring a sportsperson/team who have only competed against competitors from their own nation as "World's Best" ?

D

Perhaps you are not aware that the "competitors" in the NBA aren't all from the US.

As of April 16, 2008, official rosters for the 2007-08 NBA season featured 76 international players from 31 countries and territories:

http://www.nba.com/players/int_players_0708.html

I dont think anybody is disputing the fact that the nba has the best players in the world, what people are disputing is as their is no competition to prove them to be the "World Champions" then they surely cannot declare themselves to be so. Rags use of the F.A cup in England proves this point exactly. Teams from the higher leagues can quite easily be drawn against teams that compete in far lower standard leagues and yes upsets do happen on a regular basis. Players that didnt have the wot ever it is that takes you to the top of your sport, competing against some of the worlds best and for what ever reason winning.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Perhaps you are not aware that the "competitors" in the NBA aren't all from the US.

As of April 16, 2008, official rosters for the 2007-08 NBA season featured 76 international players from 31 countries and territories:

http://www.nba.com/players/int_players_0708.html

Well done. Have a biscuit.

So what you're saying in this post is that players from countries other than the US can play basketball at the very top level?

But you still maintain that only a US team can be declared World Champions? And you are against any form of competition which may actually prove this.
Gotcha!

Looking at the results of the FIBA World Championships, I can see why you are so afraid of competition to name the best in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Championship

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Well done. Have a biscuit.

So what you're saying in this post is that players from countries other than the US can play basketball at the very top level?

But you still maintain that only a US team can be declared World Champions? And you are against any form of competition which may actually prove this.
Gotcha!

Looking at the results of the FIBA ...[text shortened]... ition to name the best in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Championship

D

I'm not saying a "US" team is the best in the world; I'm saying the NBA Champion is the best in the world. You're rather silly to keep trying to inject into this any political undercurrent regarding Euros v. Americans; you should know I have no interest in such nonsense.

I wouldn't object at all to the NBA Champions playing the champions of other leagues; they'd win easily. I think the EuroLeague, for one, doesn't want its teams to play even exhibition games against NBA teams.

The FIBA is an All-Star competition having nothing to do with what TEAM is the best in the world.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You don't know what to do because you're an imbecile.

I'm still waiting for somebody to dispute that the NBA isn't a league consisting of the strongest teams and best players in the world. Until someone does (and presents some actual facts that support such an argument), the Celtics, as NBA champs, can legitimately claim they are the bes ...[text shortened]... t every subject can be reduced to the righteous bleating of Euros about arrogant Americans.

rag why are you having a debate with this moron?

or maybe we should change all ireland champions to world champs.....tyrone 2008 world football champions sounds pretty sweet....😉

Originally posted by darvlay
Finally! Greg Popovich, coach of the San Antonio Spurs, has remarked publically on the silliness of the term "World Champions" in the NBA. Did anyone else have a giggle while watching the Celtics raise that banner that proudly proclaimed them the WORLD CHAMPIONS? When is the NBA going to step into the modern era and change the title to LEAGUE CHAMPIONS or something similar? Will this ever happen? If not then how come?

I would guess that NBA World Champion is a copyright.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Do you have an actual argument?

Yes. That claiming to be the winners of international competion (i.e. World Champions) without competing internationally is daft. A World Champion is a specific thing - a winner of some kind of tournament to which representatives of 'the world' were invited. It is not a title that can be based on such things as what "all basketball fans know". Furthermore, your fumbling defence of it is not up to your usual standards. Nor is it up to the standards you hold others to.

Best =/= Champions.

It's pretty simple really.

Originally posted by FMF
Yes. That claiming to be the winners of international competion (i.e. World Champions) without competing internationally is daft. A World Champion is a specific thing - a winner of some kind of tournament to which representatives of 'the world' were invited. It is not a title that can be based on such things as what "all basketball fans know". Furthermore, your ...[text shortened]... e of it is not up to your usual standards. Nor is it up to the standards you hold others to.

Like many others here, you confuse unsupported assertions with an actual argument based on facts.

The term "World Champions" regarding the NBA Champion dates from the beginning of the league in 1947. At that time, there was no other professional leagues in the rest of the world that I can find (the first outside the US I've located was formed in the Philippines in 1983). So there was nobody at the time for the NBA Champion to compete with unless like Rags you think they should have sent a call out to every group of five guys who played basketball together world wide. So, the NBA champs legitimately called themselves "World Champions" of basketball a sport which, after all, had been invented in the US only about 50 years before the NBA was formed.

Given that there is no real argument that the NBA Champion isn't the best team in the world (you and nobody else here has even bothered to venture such a claim), I see no reason for the Celtics to change the wording on their championship banners that are hung on display in their home arena. I also fail to see why it's a big deal except it seems to be yet another thing for Euros to bash the US about (there are many things that the US or people in the US deserve bashing for, but the best team in the NBA calling itself the "World Champions", as they have done for 60 years isn't one of them esp. why there isn't any serious dispute that they are the best team).

EDIT: They do look nice, don't they? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/BostonCelticsChampionshipBanners.jpg/800px-BostonCelticsChampionshipBanners.jpg