Originally posted by orion25 More: if any dutch player except the goalie had done that I would quit supporting them immediately - there is no place for this in my concept of sport.
What a load of crock.
Diving is much worse. It's against the rules, it's about trying to fool the ref and it's bad sportsmanship. Are you going to stop supporting the Dutch team now?
Originally posted by Palynka If we disagree that this is cheating or bad sportsmanship then we also disagree that's the message this is sending out to the kids around the world.
This has happened many times (maybe not at a WC quarterfinal) and in most of the times the result is a red card and a penalty goal. Making it a choice for an automatic goal would lead to endless discussions w ...[text shortened]... goal or not if the handball wasn't so clearly on the line. So it's really not an option, IMO.
I'm sorry I'm bringing rugby up all the time, but it's my frame of reference in my ignorance of football...
We have the same problem in rugby, but at least there is a formal law that referees have to interpret in the game. Would you, as a football fan, not like to see that goal being given? I'm not talking about marginal calls, but this type of situation.
Do you think if that was Ronaldo's header, would this discussion have been different?
Originally posted by Crowley See, I still think you don't quite get my point.
In rugby, Uruguay would have lost that game, which would have been the 'right' outcome in that situation, because the rules allow the ref to rectify that kind of bad sportsmanship. Football needs to take a page out of rugby's rulebook...
Rugby is a hard, physical game, so comparing that physicality - a ...[text shortened]... ew Zealanders and all the world media, because it's contrary to the 'spirit of the game'.
i've ever seen a penalty try awarded in the 6 nations, world cup or euopean cup for a trip, none that i remember anyway. most were for scrums continually breaking down about 2 metres from the try line.
i see you don’t comment on the fake blood scandal i was talking about. what would you consider worse, that or what suarez did? both were similar circumstances.
Originally posted by Palynka What a load of crock.
Diving is much worse. It's against the rules, it's about trying to fool the ref and it's bad sportsmanship. Are you going to stop supporting the Dutch team now?
We will have to agree to disagree. Diving in the penalty box is just as bad. Agreed. Rolling on the floor after a takle is hardly the same now, is it? I didn't see any dives by holland, they did roll on the floor longer than they should. But how can you compare that to having two players in the box, in the last minute, trying to steal away a win with their hands. Bad comparison my friend.
Originally posted by trev33 i've ever seen a penalty try awarded in the 6 nations, world cup or euopean cup for a trip, none that i remember anyway. most were for scrums continually breaking down about 2 metres from the try line.
i see you don’t comment on the fake blood scandal i was talking about. what would you consider worse, that or what suarez did? both were similar circumstances.
There have been penalty tries awarded for collapsing mauls and scrums, as well as deliberate knock downs from defenders.
I've seen penalty tries given for trips in local leagues, but not in an International I remember either.
Fact remains, if it happened, the ref would take appropriate action.
Sorry, I have no idea what the blood scandal is all about.
Originally posted by Palynka If we disagree that this is cheating or bad sportsmanship then we also disagree that's the message this is sending out to the kids around the world.
Originally posted by Crowley Do you think if that was Ronaldo's header, would this discussion have been different?
Maybe for a few days I'd be unable to be unbiased but after a while I think my opinion would be the same. I also think Ronaldo can be a perfect example of bad sportsmanship when he dives.
The punishment for a professional foul like this is a red card (which is the heaviest punishment a player can receive) and a penalty (which is the punishment that provides the best chance of a goal). That's as heavy as it gets in football.
Originally posted by Crowley You don't think that was bad sportsmanship?
I think that bad sportsmanship is more about dishonesty, not about fouling. A game with good sportsmanship is not one without fouls, but one where the players are honest about what they did and did not do.
Originally posted by Palynka Maybe for a few days I'd be unable to be unbiased but after a while I think my opinion would be the same. I also think Ronaldo can be a perfect example of bad sportsmanship when he dives.
The punishment for a professional foul like this is a red card (which is the heaviest punishment a player can receive) and a penalty (which is the punishment that provides the best chance of a goal). That's as heavy as it gets in football.
OK.
Hypothetically: If FIFA had a referendum about whether fans would like to see refs giving a goal in that situation, how would you vote?
Originally posted by Palynka I think that bad sportsmanship is more about dishonesty, not about fouling. A game with good sportsmanship is not one without fouls, but one where the players are honest about what they did and did not do.
See, I can't get behind that.
I believe very strongly in 'The Spirit Of The Game', know what I mean?
Or let me clarify. I agree with you fully, but what Suarez did was not in good sport, as he knew fully he had no other option and decided to act outside the spirit of the game...
If FIFA had a referendum about whether fans would like to see refs giving a goal in that situation, how would you vote?
The question is what situations are those and where do you draw the line, leading to even more controversy. I think penalty and red are appropriate sanctions as they are heavy and avoid the issue of drawing a line. So I'd vote no goal.
Originally posted by Palynka The question is what situations are those and where do you draw the line, leading to even more controversy. I think penalty and red are appropriate sanctions as they are heavy and avoid the issue of drawing a line. So I'd vote no goal.
Interesting, although I expected you to say something along those lines. If this hypothetical referendum happened, do you think your views would be shared globally?
Originally posted by Crowley Interesting, although I expected you to say something along those lines. If this hypothetical referendum happened, do you think your views would be shared globally?
I don't know. Probably not, but I think the fact most people were hoping for a Ghana win (I was) makes this seem worse than it is.
Originally posted by Crowley See, I can't get behind that.
I believe very strongly in 'The Spirit Of The Game', know what I mean?
Or let me clarify. I agree with you fully, but what Suarez did was not in good sport, as he knew fully he had no other option and decided to act outside the spirit of the game...
I do see your point. Actually, I would support a two match ban because of that.
Edit - BUT, in the realm of unsportmanlike behaviour, I think what Filipe Melo did (stamping an opponent), what Robben did (faking being hurt to get a player red carded) or what Ronaldo and many others do so many times (diving to get a foul where there was none) is much worse.
Originally posted by Crowley There have been penalty tries awarded for collapsing mauls and scrums, as well as deliberate knock downs from defenders.
I've seen penalty tries given for trips in local leagues, but not in an International I remember either.
Fact remains, if it happened, the ref would take appropriate action.
Sorry, I have no idea what the blood scandal is all about.
the appropriate action usually being a sin binning and a penalty, not penalty try. last few seconds, 4 points behind there's not a rugby player in the game who wouldn't trip someone to stop a serious try scoring opportunity. and rightly so, do whatever it takes to win the game, the refs are there to dish out the appropriate punishment within the rules of the game as you say. in soccer in this instance it's a penalty and a red card, which is fair enough i believe. you can’t send the player off and award the goal.
the blood scandal was in the 2009 european cup quarterfinal between harlequins and leinster, leinster were a point up with a few mins left and one of the harlequin players used a fake blood capsule a medic had brought onto the field so he could get a blood replacement, it just happened that the guy coming off the bench was their best kicker.
03 Jul '10 10:13
Wow!
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