Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you don't think it somewhat diminishes one's dignity being forced to go to work on monday after pushing a human being out of their body on sunday?

They still keep mothers in the hospital one or two days.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
awesome then.
glad to be wrong on this.

Words have meanings.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
That is one solution. A similar solution to crime would be to stop committing crimes, while pollution can be easily abolished by not polluting.

KN thinks having children and being responsible for making that decision is analogous to committing crime and throwing litter out the car window.

🙄

Originally posted by Wajoma
KN thinks having children and being responsible for making that decision is analogous to committing crime and throwing litter out the car window.

🙄

Stop crime-> allow the abortion because stopping abortions is criminal.

Don't litter -> properly dispose of the fetus after the abortion.

Originally posted by Wajoma
KN thinks having children and being responsible for making that decision is analogous to committing crime and throwing litter out the car window.

🙄

No, I think your non-solution is analogous to other non-solutions.

Originally posted by normbenign
They still keep mothers in the hospital one or two days.

that makes it ok then. soon, all (except papua new guinea, they are on your side) the other countries will see how wrong they are and abolish paid maternity leave)

Originally posted by Eladar
From the leftist perspective:

Why give a woman special privilege because she didn't have an abortion?

Right wing perspective:

Let the person work out an individual agreement when the person starts employment.

"Let the person work out an individual agreement when the person starts employment."
yes, this works awesomely when one would be starving without the job and the other will still be a multi billion dollar company.

people reach mutually beneficial agreements only when they are on equal footing.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"Let the person work out an individual agreement when the person starts employment."
yes, this works awesomely when one would be starving without the job and the other will still be a multi billion dollar company.

people reach mutually beneficial agreements only when they are on equal footing.

You have something they value i.e. your time.

They have something you value i.e. a salary

Equal footing.

Originally posted by Wajoma
You have something they value i.e. your time.

They have something you value i.e. a salary

Equal footing.

does walmart needs your time as much as you need their salary?

i don't know why i continue this discussion, you are obviously trolling. nobody is stupid enough to think someone looking to get a cashier job at walmart is on equal footing with freakin walmart and has any bargaining chips.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"The FMLA already requires employers to give up to 12 weeks unpaid leave for maternity or paternity"
when you are working minimum wage, that is not an option.

"Forcing paid leave is forcing someone else to pay you money for not working."
the mother/father is working. one is raising a baby in a crucial stage of its development. the child who will pay y ...[text shortened]... as that"
human decency. that's pretty compelling reason.

pfff, heavy handed. that's funny.

==="The FMLA already requires employers to give up to 12 weeks unpaid leave for maternity or paternity"
when you are working minimum wage, that is not an option. ===

Another irrelevant smoke screen. Then give them money via some means tested social welfare program. That's totally beside the point. The issue in this thread is whether all employers should be forced to provide paid maternity leave. Your harping on the isolated cases of the destitute is irrelevant and intentionally misleading.


==="Forcing paid leave is forcing someone else to pay you money for not working."
the mother/father is working. one is raising a baby in a crucial stage of its development. the child who will pay your pension. ===

Actually, I pay for my own pension, thank you very much. I pay 15 grand a year (give or take) into the social security trust fund and expect to receive social security when I retire based on that. I realize it's necessary and I'm not complaining about it, but I'm sure as heck not going to give someone else credit for my social security.

Originally posted by sh76
==="The FMLA already requires employers to give up to 12 weeks unpaid leave for maternity or paternity"
when you are working minimum wage, that is not an option. ===

Another irrelevant smoke screen. Then give them money via some means tested social welfare program. That's totally beside the point. The issue in this thread is whether all employers should be ...[text shortened]... ing about it, but I'm sure as heck not going to give someone else credit for my social security.

Are you self employed or do you have an employer making half your payment?

Originally posted by Wajoma
KN thinks having children and being responsible for making that decision is analogous to committing crime and throwing litter out the car window.

🙄

Any crime of omission can be cured by simply avoiding the omission.

Originally posted by sh76
==="The FMLA already requires employers to give up to 12 weeks unpaid leave for maternity or paternity"
when you are working minimum wage, that is not an option. ===

Another irrelevant smoke screen. Then give them money via some means tested social welfare program. That's totally beside the point. The issue in this thread is whether all employers should be ...[text shortened]... ing about it, but I'm sure as heck not going to give someone else credit for my social security.

You do recognize that you are participating in a welfare program in the name of Social Security, not a retirement program. The amount you "contribute" is multiples of what I paid, but your payback in benefits will not be. In fact, the most popular method of "saving" Social Security among politicians is making benefits means tested.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
. Mothers are the best , wouldn't you agree?

NO

SEXIST PROPOGANDA

Originally posted by sh76
==="The FMLA already requires employers to give up to 12 weeks unpaid leave for maternity or paternity"
when you are working minimum wage, that is not an option. ===

Another irrelevant smoke screen. Then give them money via some means tested social welfare program. That's totally beside the point. The issue in this thread is whether all employers should be ...[text shortened]... ing about it, but I'm sure as heck not going to give someone else credit for my social security.

Why is it better to have a means-tested program? Non-means tested programs are easier to administer, lead to greater solidarity and people who don't need it will pay more taxes anyway to pay for the greater cost of the program.

Actually, I pay for my own pension, thank you very much.

From what I understand about Social Security it is not like a private pension fund and low-income workers will get more out of it than they put in. In principle non-workers are always supported by workers regardless of what accounting the non-workers did when they were still workers. If everyone stopped working your Social Security funds would be meaningless.