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  1. Standard memberno1marauder
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    20 Apr '24 15:301 edit
    Right wingers here are repeating the same nonsense they did a year ago that I debunked in this thread: https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/bonus-question%E2%80%A6.196665

    I also made some predictions, like a motion to dismiss on Statute of Limitations grounds, would be denied by the trial judge. It was here: https://casetext.com/case/people-v-trump-20

    But as a reminder:

    Despite what Average Joe keeps repeating, DA Bragg did not charge Donald Trump with a Federal crime. He charged him with 34 counts of this one:

    NY Penal Law "§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree. A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof. Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony."

    As to the object crimes, Bragg is basing the "intent to commit another crime" which elevates the charge from a misdemeanor 2nd Degree to a felony First Degree Falsifying business records, Bragg uses three theories any one of which the Judge found adequate to sustain the charges at this point (a fourth was rejected):

    "(1) The People allege that Defendant "violated federal election laws because the payoffs to both McDougal and Daniels violated FECA's restrictions on corporate and individual contributions." People's (Apposition pg. 24 The People presented evidence to the Grand Jury that Cohen pled guilty in the Southern District of New York to violating FECA for engaging in the very acts which are at issue here, i.e. making unlawful campaign contributions and that he did so at the direction of, and in coordination with, "a candidate for federal office," later identified as Donald J. Trump - the Defendant herein.
    (2) Under the second theory, the People allege that Defendant intended to violate N.Y. Election Law § 17 152 by conspiring to "promote the election of any person to a public office...by entering a scheme specifically for purposes of influencing the 2016 presidential election; and that they did so by 'unlawfull means,' including by violating FECA through the unlaw individual and corporate contributions by Cohen. Pecker, and AMI; and...by falsifying the records of other New York enterprises and mischaracterizing the. nature of the repayment for tax purposes." People's Opposition at pg. 25.
    (3) Under die third theory, the People allege that the Defendant intended to violate New York fax Law §§ 1801(a)(3) and 1802. this theory is premised on evidence introduced to the Grand Jury that when Cohen was reimbursed for the $1.30,000 payment he made to Daniels, the amount he received was "grossed up" to compensate him for taxes he would have to pay on the reimbursement."

    "The Court has considered the respective arguments of the parties and finds that the evidence presented to the Grand Jury for the first three theories was legally sufficient to support the intent to commit the "other crime" element of falsifying Business Records in the first Degree."

    https://casetext.com/case/people-v-trump-20 pp. 13-14

    Finally, the Statute of Limitations defense was rejected as I predicted though on grounds I hadn't thought of:

    "Although conduct described in the Indictment occurred more than five years prior to the filing of the Indictment, the Governor's Orders tolled "any specific time limit for the commencement" of any felony through May 6, 2021. Thus, the deadline for the prosecution of the alleged conduct was extended by one year and 47 days. In other words, this felony prosecution had to be commenced within 6 years and 47 days from when the crimes were allegedly committed. The earliest conduct described in the Indictment allegedly occurred on February 14, 2017. The tolled period or extension for commencing the action thus brought the conduct described in the Indictment within the prescribed five-year time limit.

    Since the Court finds the Indictment was timely brought as a result of the tolling occasioned by the Governor's Executive Orders, it declines to address the People's other theory pursuant to CPI- § 30.10(4)(a)(1), that the filing deadline was also extended because Defendant was continuously out of New York."

    p. 24

    Hope that helps.
  2. SubscriberRuss
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    22 Apr '24 14:07
    A fairly significant web site update is about to land soon. If you would like to help test this beta, you can preview it right now at Beta.RedHotPawn.com.

    Please login, just do your normal thing, and provide any feedback to :

    Thread 199493

    Thanks!
  3. Subscribermoonbus
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    20 Apr '24 20:402 edits
    @mott-the-hoople said
    cant wait till they produce the victim of this horrible crime 😂
    The 'victims' are all the corporations which did not falsify their records and were thereby unfairly disadvantaged by the cheater.

    That is why a chess player who cheats with an engine is barred from an entire tournament, instead of having merely his one cheated-game result annulled.

    The 'victim' is the integrity of the system.
  4. Standard membermchill
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    22 Apr '24 16:042 edits
    No, it is not.

    If I or anyone else had cheated on their state or federal taxes, falsified business records, incited an armed mob to storm the Capital building, where they bashed in windows, kicked in doors, killed and injured police officers. If I had stolen government documents, then refuse to give them back despite multiple requests to do so. If I or anyone else had paid off pornstars and playmates to keep them quiet in order to suppress negative press in order to win an election. I or anyone else would have been sitting in a prison cell for at least the last 2 years - and would be staying there for a very long time.

    This man has been treated like royalty by the criminal justice system and still he snivels and whines about being victimized. For the 1st time in decades, he's in a place where he doesn't get to make all the rules and has to answer to someone besides himself. Your delay tactics have run their course, and its finally time to face a jury of your peers. So, stop crying like a little child with a broken toy and deal with it! 😏
  5. Subscribermoonbus
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    22 Apr '24 16:172 edits
    @mchill

    In order to understand Trump's oft-repeated charge that he's the victim (of a "witch-hunt" ), it helps to know something about who his mentor was.

    His mentor was Roy Cohn.

    Now, for those who are too young for that name to resonate, he was Senator Joe McCarthy's 'rotweiller', right-hand man, and legal counsel. Yes, that Senator McCarthy -- the one who instigated a 'witch-hunt' in the the 1950s. Everything Trump does in and around courtrooms , he learned from Roy Cohn: delay, prevaricate, intimidate witnesses and judges, accuse your accuser of what you did (e.g. rig an election), turn the charges upside-down and cry 'I'm the victim here! not my accuser', avoid the facts, deny responsibility, blame someone else, decry the procedure, decry the evidence, deflect, deny-deny-deny, distort the legal system against itself, automatically appeal any decision you don't like, counter-sue your accusers for quadruple the sum because they can't afford the legal fees to defend themselves against spurious charges, but under no circumstances address the facts or ever admit defeat (even when the sentence is unequivocally "you did it and you're guilty as Cain" ). All these tactics are straight out of Roy Cohn's playbook, and the whole 'witch-hunt' narrative dates to Sen. McCarthy himself.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Cohn
  6. Standard membermchill
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    23 Apr '24 15:041 edit
    @averagejoe1 said
    A tax evasion witness.?? What has that got to do with this case? What crime was Trump trying to conceal, anyway. That has not been made clear.
    The trouble for Trump is this minefield, one slip of tongue, (and he does a lot of talking) could backfire on him, and we could lose it.
    If Biden wins, are y'all going to make us house the immigrants, legal and ille ...[text shortened]... liberalized. Everyone would indeed, at the end of the day, all end up in the same place. Brrrrrr
    I'm sure its puzzling to you Joe, but the prosecutions documented and taped evidence paints a very clear picture of fraud and election interference.
  7. Subscriberwidget
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    25 Apr '24 18:44
    @Suzianne

    Just the one, I think, but all it takes is one bad apple...
  8. Gothenburg
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    26 Apr '24 18:16
    @divegeester said
    … FMF

    It seems pretty clear to me that FMF is gone for good since his bereavement. And whether you loved him or loathed him it is also now clear that he was without doubt one of, if not THE best poster in the two forums he frequented; General and Spirituality.

    Thoughts?
    He made a difference, I feel sad for his bereavement.
  9. Subscribermoonbus
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    20 Apr '24 09:25
    @vespin said
    We are down to 3 full pages of clans. I believe that is around 50 to 60 clans, actually less if we don't count one player clans. We use to have 120 to 180 clans I believe.
    Leaders are not playing matches, and not just with my team or Metallica, they are just sitting silent and if they do play, they argue over a 2 player vs a 3 player match as if that would have any impact a ...[text shortened]... nd clans. It's really a shame.

    All my best to everyone regardless of the situation.

    Michael
    People have come to recognise that there is not a level playing field and that certain 'tactics' skew the results. Change the framework to establish a level playing field, stop employing said 'tactics', and that might attract people back to the clan system.
  10. Joined
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    20 Apr '24 10:192 edits
    Man kills himself by setting himself on fire outside of Trump trial … and throws conspiracy leaflets into the air while doing it.

    One less Trump supporting loon I suppose.

    Any of you guys here thinking of dying for your Fat Orange Jesus?

    https://news.sky.com/story/man-who-set-himself-on-fire-outside-trump-trial-has-died-13119017
  11. Standard memberspruce112358
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    20 Apr '24 13:04
    @averagejoe1 said
    You libs should be aware that we put you in the category of these people/students Who want America to die, while all the while, taking all that America has to offer, mainly free stuff. Then they are so bold as to say death to America, but pay our tuition loans off, so that we can get rich in America?
    Personally, I think that you are all of that bent. But we are all ...[text shortened]... uld protect the rights of those people. Protest is one thing, but saying that America should die……..
    What is secession if not 'Death to America'?

    "The Texas Independence Referendum Act (HB 3596), commonly shortened to TEXIT, was a failed Texas state legislation which, if passed, would have called for a state referendum on the secession of Texas from the United States. While prior versions of the legislation have been introduced under similar titles, this most recent version was introduced by state representative Bryan Slaton on March 6, 2023. The bill failed to get out of committee before the end of the regular session."

    So it is pretty rich, you complaining about some guy in a crowd in Michigan yelling something in Arabic when TEXAS LEGISLATORS are proposing 'Death to America' bills!
  12. Standard memberno1marauder
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    20 Apr '24 16:31
    @averagejoe1 removed their quoted post
    I'm going to ignore posts from people who can't grasp what I just wrote and the excerpts from the Court's ruling.

    Nothing remotely in my post says Trump isn't charged with a felony in NY. In fact, he is charged with 34 counts of one: NY Penal Law § 175.10.
  13. Subscribermoonbus
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    20 Apr '24 17:19
    @no1marauder

    Thanks. I await with baited breath further updates in the case.
  14. Standard memberno1marauder
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    20 Apr '24 18:06
    @averagejoe1 said
    I, AvJoe, deleted something I mistyped. Let me now file my own Issues of the NY Trial. Then all of us are free to choose. You libs have not yet taken our freedom yet, I hope. Read this, and then read Maruder's Link-style post again.

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-hush-money-trial-frankenstein-case-zapped-life-turley
    From your link:

    "And to this day, there's some confusion as to Bragg's actual theory as to what was the exact crime that Trump was hiding from all of this."

    Only if you have failed to read Judge Merchan's decision of February 15, 2015 that I have already cited. One would think that even a Fox News, Trump mouthpiece like Jonathan Turley would have at least done that.
  15. Subscribermoonbus
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    20 Apr '24 18:521 edit
    @no1marauder said
    Opening statements Monday. Jury selection went pretty smoothly considering the notoriety of the case.
    It's less the case that's "notorious" (falsifying business records isn't all that uncommon), it's more the defendant. It's hard for Trump to accept that, as far as the court is concerned, he's not a former president and not the presumptive front runner for the presidency either -- he's John Doe, just plain John Doe.

    Am I correct that this being a criminal case and not a civil one, the rules of evidence are tighter (i.e., tougher to get a conviction)?

    May cool and level heads prevail.
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