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  1. 13 Nov '06 15:32
    I think you should still get the rating points if you are playing someone who gets banned for engine use [and who then has his games resigned for him].
    After all probably most people on the site have had points taking from them by engines at some time - surely it would even things out.
    If not, why don't we get the points back that were nefariously taken from us?

    Thanks in advance.
  2. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    13 Nov '06 17:24
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    I think you should still get the rating points if you are playing someone who gets banned for engine use [and who then has his games resigned for him].
    After all probably most people on the site have had points taking from them by engines at some time - surely it would even things out.
    If not, why don't we get the points back that were nefariously taken from us?

    Thanks in advance.
    Most players who played against engine users don't lose many points. A 2100+ player (the majority of cheaters) won't strip points from lower rated players (perhaps 1 per game).
    Why should a 1400 player gain 32 points just because they happened to be playing a player when they were banned?
    And anyway, what order would you resign the games?
  3. 13 Nov '06 22:19
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Most players who played against engine users don't lose many points. A 2100+ player (the majority of cheaters) won't strip points from lower rated players (perhaps 1 per game).
    Why should a 1400 player gain 32 points just because they happened to be playing a player when they were banned?
    And anyway, what order would you resign the games?
    If that is not a fair, or possible idea, the points that they got from other people should be returned. And all the other thousands of affected ratings readjusted.

    As for the order of resigning, it would have to be in the order that they had been started.
  4. 14 Nov '06 01:07
    I reckon 'Nil Points' is a fair way to go about it. After all, the majority of points were most likely notched up illegitimately anyway. SO why should you have a massive hike in points from them. You lose nothing they lose everything. Sounds good to me.
  5. 14 Nov '06 02:46
    Originally posted by jimslyp69
    I reckon 'Nil Points' is a fair way to go about it. After all, the majority of points were most likely notched up illegitimately anyway. SO why should you have a massive hike in points from them. You lose nothing they lose everything. Sounds good to me.
    Fair enough.

    But what about the old games where they have beaten people - especially when they were on lower ratings themselves on the way up.
    I recently lost two games to a convicted and banned engine and lost over 30 points.
    I should get 'em back methinks.
  6. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    14 Nov '06 05:10
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    If that is not a fair, or possible idea, the points that they got from other people should be returned. And all the other thousands of affected ratings readjusted.

    As for the order of resigning, it would have to be in the order that they had been started.
    So every single rating calculation going back to when the cheater first registered must be recalculated? Say A is a cheater who has played B and C. D has played both B and C (B before A did, C after A did).
    A is banned and ratings must be recalculated.
    So B wouldn't have lost rating points against A and therefore all games B plays from now on need to recalculated. C is the same. And therefore the game D played against C needs to be adjusted and hence all of D's games after that game must be changed too.
    It would be a nightmare. A pointless nightmare.
  7. 14 Nov '06 06:43
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    So every single rating calculation going back to when the cheater first registered must be recalculated? Say A is a cheater who has played B and C. D has played both B and C (B before A did, C after A did).
    A is banned and ratings must be recalculated.
    So B wouldn't have lost rating points against A and therefore all games B plays from now on need to rec ...[text shortened]... 's games after that game must be changed too.
    It would be a nightmare. A pointless nightmare.
    Easily done by a computer surely.
  8. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    14 Nov '06 07:29
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    Easily done by a computer surely.
    So let's say it's easily done (I don't think that the million games played in the last year and a bit would be such a snap to recalculate) does that mean we should do it? Who knows whether your rating would go up or down? A player would get banned and (almost) every single player would have their rating change anything from a few points to a hundred or more.
  9. 14 Nov '06 07:41
    I agree with XanthosNZ, whether it can be done (to recalculate the rating points for every game for every member) is somewhat pointless. If I lose 30 points that's one thing (the rating point system tends to adjust itself over time), but I wouldn't be likewise happy if I lost a tournament victory because of a cheater, no way. But I don't know how to recompensate for this...
  10. 14 Nov '06 11:29
    plus... if a engine user starts cheating from the day he registed.. his provisional rating would be very high not taking alot a points... if eh didnt.. when did he start cheating? do u know for a fact he was cheating on ur game?

    plus.. its really pointless. The games should be cancelled and no points for nobody... plus.. what do u care so much for 30 lousy points? u think that u wont lost them again if ur level of play doesnt match the rating?

    people are too obsceced with ratings...
  11. 14 Nov '06 14:20 / 2 edits
    I can think of plenty of reasons why NOT to do anything - the difficulties involved etc etc. So should we just forget about it and carry on?
    In the interests of fair play, I think something should be done.


    Originally posted by Tiago Silva
    ..do u know for a fact he was cheating on ur game?

    Well he was banned for using an engine - what more proof do I need?
  12. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    15 Nov '06 05:39
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    I can think of plenty of reasons why NOT to do anything - the difficulties involved etc etc. So should we just forget about it and carry on?
    In the interests of fair play, I think something should be done.


    Originally posted by Tiago Silva
    [b] ..do u know for a fact he was cheating on ur game?


    Well he was banned for using an engine - what more proof do I need?[/b]
    We should forget about it and carry on as it's a stupid idea.

    As for whether a player cheated in a game against you them being banned for cheating doesn't imply that. See for example User 204921. This player likely wasn't cheating back at the beginning of (her?) graph. And then started. Should players who played her at the beginning have their ratings adjusted as well?
  13. 15 Nov '06 08:25
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    We should forget about it and carry on as it's a stupid idea.

    As for whether a player cheated in a game against you them being banned for cheating doesn't imply that. See for example User 204921. This player likely wasn't cheating back at the beginning of (her?) graph. And then started. Should players who played her at the beginning have their ratings adjusted as well?
    All games from anyone who was banned for cheating are 'suspect' and therefor, yes I would personally like to see all their games purged and everything recalculated.
  14. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    15 Nov '06 09:27
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    All games from anyone who was banned for cheating are 'suspect' and therefor, yes I would personally like to see all their games purged and everything recalculated.
    Do you understand why this is a stupid idea?
  15. 15 Nov '06 15:58
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Do you understand why this is a stupid idea?
    The ratings would then be slightly more accurate so no it is not really a stupid idea at all.