Organically Grown Fruits and Vegetables

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Which information specifically?

How did you determine that organically grown fruits and vegetables are no better for a person's health than non-organically grown?

Would you wash the pesticides off of an apple before eating it or would you just start eating it?

Originally posted by mikelom
For Humy and DeepThought.

Although not directly related to organic foods, this paper I edited/proofread 4 weeks ago has now been published. It concerns heavy metals in soils only. However, it is of some relevance as it mentions that the types of local soils and rainfalls are an important factor in adsorption. The English is not perfect, as the paper was r ...[text shortened]... ed work... 😉

http://www.pjoes.com/pdf/23.3/Pol.J.Environ.Stud.Vol.23.No.3.853-865.pdf

-m.

Thanks, I read the abstract, introduction and conclusion, it's reassuring that heavy metals can be removed by pouring distilled water over the soil - the question is where do they go...

Originally posted by Metal Brain
How did you determine that organically grown fruits and vegetables are no better for a person's health than non-organically grown?

Would you wash the pesticides off of an apple before eating it or would you just start eating it?

Non-organic food does generally contain more pesticides, but usually not at hazardous levels.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Non-organic food does generally contain more pesticides, but usually not at hazardous levels.

Would you wash the pesticides off of an apple before eating it or would you just start eating it?

http://www.integrativeoncology-essentials.com/2013/03/pesticides-herbicides-and-cancer/

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Would you wash the pesticides off of an apple before eating it or would you just start eating it?

http://www.integrativeoncology-essentials.com/2013/03/pesticides-herbicides-and-cancer/

Honestly, I very rarely eat apples, but when I do I just eat 'em.

Integrative medicine, which is also called integrated medicine and integrative health in the United Kingdom,[1] combines alternative medicine with evidence-based medicine. Proponents claim that it treats the "whole person," focuses on wellness and health rather than on treating disease, and emphasizes the patient-physician relationship.[2][1][3][4]

Integrative medicine has been criticized for compromising the effectiveness of mainstream medicine through inclusion of ineffective alternative remedies,[5] and for claiming it is distinctive in taking a rounded view of a person's health.[6]

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Would you wash the pesticides off of an apple before eating it or would you just start eating it?

http://www.integrativeoncology-essentials.com/2013/03/pesticides-herbicides-and-cancer/

I always wash the apples before eating them but not to wash of pesticides, which would be illogical, but rather purely to wash of dirt and possibly toxic naturally occurring microfungi (which, by the way, is more common on organically grown fruit )
The reason why it would be illogical to wash them to wash off pesticides is because nearly always there are no significant amounts of pesticides to wash off! this is because by law farmers must allow a certain time period between the last spray of a given type of pesticide and harvest so to allow the chemical to degrade and reduce in effective amount to the point where its effective toxicity at harvest time is in effect near enough zero and thus has no measurable health effect whatsoever.

In addition, for what are called systemic pesticides, washing will not wash it off because the pesticide goes deep into the plant's flesh rather than staying on its surface so, for that type of pesticide at least, washing the apple to wash off the pesticide would be totally illogical anyway because any minute trace amount of residue of the pesticide that is left in the fruit at harvest time wouldn't be on the skin but deeper down where it would be impossible to wash off anyway!

All credible scientific empirical evidence shows there is generally no significant risk of cancer or any other health risk merely by eating vegetables that was not grown 'organically' and was sprayed with pesticides. There have been a few rare exceptions where there has been significant risk but only because of the comparative rare illegal misuse of chemical sprays, which can be and should be tackled with vigorous law enforcement, or use of certain specific chemicals that have since been banned because they are too dangerous thus, because the most dangerous ones have been banned, they are no longer a significant health issue.

As for any pesticides that are unexceptionably dangerous to health but are yet to be banned (I assume there aren't many left! ) , the rational response to them is to simply ban JUST them, NOT all chemicals! Banning all chemicals including those that have very low toxicity (say, those that are not more toxic than common table salt ) and those those that are non-toxic would be the response of morons.

Originally posted by humy
I always wash the apples before eating them but not to wash of pesticides, which would be illogical, but rather purely to wash of dirt and possibly toxic naturally occurring microfungi (which, by the way, is more common on organically grown fruit )
The reason why it would be illogical to wash them to wash off pesticides is because nearly always there are no si ...[text shortened]... because the most dangerous ones have been banned, they are no longer a significant health issue.

What exactly is the "credible scientific empirical evidence"? No one has ever done a randomised controlled trial on this. The basis for their statement is the levels of pesticides one has to give to laboratory animals to get an effect, and then extrapolating to humans. The evidence you are quoting isn't as good as you think it is.

Originally posted by DeepThought
What exactly is the "credible scientific empirical evidence"? No one has ever done a randomised controlled trial on this. The basis for their statement is the levels of pesticides one has to give to laboratory animals to get an effect, and then extrapolating to humans. The evidence you are quoting isn't as good as you think it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide_residue

"...A study calculated predicted long term consumer exposure to these pesticides; it was found exposure levels were 1000 times less than the lowest levels shown to have an effect.[26] The scientific evidence shows that there is a very low risk associated with eating these foods despite their dubious label...."

So is this just a myth -a lie and coverup from wiki?

No doubt you can find no end of websites saying 'studies' have 'shown' that organic food is much healthier. There is no shortage of such unscientific websites all over the net but, they are just that, unscientific. And I can prove them unscientific by pointing out their very obvious flaws which often include vague unscientific terms such as "less nutritious" (how do you scientifically quantify the amount of "nutrition" when what makes a food nutritious is not one thing but a complex mix of many different things that have effects that interact? Exactly what scientific units of measurement are used when defining a particular food's overall nutritional value so you can make a rational and scientific comparison? all you can say unambiguously about its nutritional value is for specific vitamins and minerals etc but there is absolutely NO evidence that deficiency in those specific vitamins and minerals is made significantly more likely just by eating non-organic veg as opposed to eating organic veg so all that is irrelevant )

Originally posted by humy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide_residue

"...A study calculated predicted long term consumer exposure to these pesticides; it was found exposure levels were 1000 times less than the lowest levels shown to have an effect.[26] The scientific evidence shows that there is a very low risk associated with eating these foods despite their dubious label...."
...[text shortened]... kely just by eating non-organic veg as opposed to eating organic veg so all that is irrelevant )

But in the paper the measure they used was based on RfDs = reference doses. The chronic reference doses are obtained from toxicology experiments on animals. The animal model may be no good, especially since laboratory rats have a life expectancy of the order of 3 years and humans of the order of 75, so are not necessarily good models for chronic effects - especially of bioaccumulating agents.

For really good evidence there should be a large randomised controlled trial where one group is given a box of conventionally produced food and the other group a box of organically produced food with the trial lasting for at least a decade, and follow up ideally for the remainder of their lives.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Honestly, I very rarely eat apples, but when I do I just eat 'em.

Integrative medicine, which is also called integrated medicine and integrative health in the United Kingdom,[1] combines alternative medicine with evidence-based medicine. Proponents claim that it treats the "whole person," focuses on wellness and health rather than on treating ...[text shortened]... [5] and for claiming it is distinctive in taking a rounded view of a person's health.[6]

I have no idea why you posted that drab on integrative medicine. What does it have to do with this subject?

Keep eating those apples with pesticides on them. I'm sure you feel safe now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_a_thousand_cuts

Originally posted by humy
I always wash the apples before eating them but not to wash of pesticides, which would be illogical, but rather purely to wash of dirt and possibly toxic naturally occurring microfungi (which, by the way, is more common on organically grown fruit )
The reason why it would be illogical to wash them to wash off pesticides is because nearly always there are no si ...[text shortened]... xic than common table salt ) and those those that are non-toxic would be the response of morons.

"All credible scientific empirical evidence shows there is generally no significant risk of cancer or any other health risk merely by eating vegetables that was not grown 'organically' and was sprayed with pesticides."

The same used to apply to smoking tobacco. In time we find out the truth.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
"All credible scientific empirical evidence shows there is generally no significant risk of cancer or any other health risk merely by eating vegetables that was not grown 'organically' and was sprayed with pesticides."

The same used to apply to smoking tobacco. In time we find out the truth.

The same used to apply to smoking tobacco.

No, because we have real credible EVIDENCE that tobacco does significant harm to health -big difference.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
The same used to apply to smoking tobacco. In time we find out the truth.

So basically you are claiming that because of some possible future scientific finding, you could be correct now about whatever you choose to claim.
I could equally claim that organic foods will one day be found to be hazardous to the health.

(but I think we can rule out either option being more hazardous than smoking).

Originally posted by humy

The same used to apply to smoking tobacco.

No, because we have real credible EVIDENCE that tobacco does significant harm to health -big difference.

Many pesticides have already been proven to cause cancer. Because dosage matters I was simply giving you the benefit of the doubt. Sure, NOW we know tobacco harms peoples health, but that was disputed for many years before the findings were clear.
The problem with proving carcinogens are actually causing cancer in people is that there are so many other carcinogens we are consuming, so the evidence is there just like there was with tobacco. It just tales a while before ironclad proof is found.

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/food/risks.htm

Originally posted by twhitehead
So basically you are claiming that because of some possible future scientific finding, you could be correct now about whatever you choose to claim.
I could equally claim that organic foods will one day be found to be hazardous to the health.

(but I think we can rule out either option being more hazardous than smoking).

Organic foods are sometimes hazardous to peoples health. I don't think any informed person could disagree with that. People die from eating peanuts because of an allergic reaction.
Green potato skins are not good for you because they contain small amounts of solanine which is a natural pesticide. Maybe someday it will be proven to cause cancer, but that does not mean it will happen anytime soon. We consume enough man made pesticides that it is almost impossible to prove what is causing the cancer because of that alone. Then you have the dosage issue. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

You can eat food with pesticides on it if you like, but I would advise you to feed children better food.

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/food/pest.htm