The Moon and Design

Originally posted by chaney3

I was very careful, I thought, to use the term 'design', and not God specifically, earlier in the thread. I was not the one to initiate goddidit.
.

so when you spoke of "design" you weren't implying goddidit? Sorry, don't believe you, and nobody else does either. You lie.
When you spoke of "design" and, for example, the human brain, who or what do you suggest credibly might 'design' the human brain if not your 'God' or at least a 'supernatural god'?

Originally posted by Soothfast
What do you believe to be "sufficient proof" that God exists?

If a bearded sage descended upon a cloud and turned one loaf of pumpernickel into fifty, and parted the sea before my eyes, I must admit, my first inclination would be to believe I'm hallucinating. But, even if I were to trust my senses (and let's say that's the case), then I would be inclin ...[text shortened]... ld still think in terms of aliens before gods. Maybe gods are just really advanced aliens, yes?

You seem willing to believe that the 'bearded sage' could be a possible alien.

But what if this bearded sage took your example a step further? And exited the cloud, came directly to you, and proclaimed that he was God?

Would you continue to not believe? Would you likely consider it a trap of sorts? Still seek, in your mind, a different alternative to what he has just told you?

I am finding that you guys will never believe in God, regardless of your empty assertions that you posses an open mind.....which clearly you don't have, if you'll admit it.

Originally posted by chaney3


But what if this bearded sage took your example a step further? And exited the cloud, came directly to you, and proclaimed that he was God?

since this hasn't happened and you haven't provided proof that your God exists, how is this relevant? It wouldn't matter whether we would believe because it hasn't happened and thus we will continue to not believe that your God exists.
OK, let me put it this way; suppose that I would believe under those circumstances there is a God and I say this. But those circumstances haven't come about so, ...now what? What now is your argument to persuade me that your God exists? I mean, what is your next step here and what do you hope to achieve?

Originally posted by humy
so when you spoke of "design" you weren't implying goddidit? Sorry, don't believe you, and nobody else does either. You lie.
When you spoke of "design" and, for example, the human brain, who or what do you suggest credibly might 'design' the human brain if not your 'God' or at least a 'supernatural god'?

Admitting design is much different than knowing who the designer is.

For example, in the spirituality forum, there is much debate about the trinity, whether Jesus was Himself God?

I have kept any debate of the designer's identity out of this forum, because obviously, millions of people have their own idea of who that could be.....God, Jesus, Buddha, Rah, Mohammed, etc.

Design, not designer.

Originally posted by chaney3
You seem willing to believe that the 'bearded sage' could be a possible alien.

But what if this bearded sage took your example a step further? And exited the cloud, came directly to you, and proclaimed that he was God?

Would you continue to not believe? Would you likely consider it a trap of sorts? Still seek, in your mind, a different alternative t ...[text shortened]... ty assertions that you posses an open mind.....which clearly you don't have, if you'll admit it.

If I came to you and said I was God, would you believe me?

No?

What if I pulled a chipmunk out of my bowler hat? Would that convince you?

No??

Tough crowd. So, say I next waved my hand, and a fire appeared on the summit of a hill 10 km away? Would you finally kneel before me and pay me proper homage?

No???

God damn! (Pardon my Sanskrit.) So then, what if I stamped a foot and a clap of thunder emanated from the heavens? Still not enough?

What "miracle" would suffice to convince you? And why wouldn't you believe that particular "miracle" wasn't just another magic trick? And why would you take my word at face value, no matter what I say or do? Saying one is a god is a pretty tall order, after all, and historically power and benevolence haven't mixed well together.

Originally posted by chaney3
No proof will suffice, as twhitehead made clear.

That is false.
I did not make any such thing clear.
What I did, was explain that finding actual proof of the existence of God is practically impossible. I also asked you some questions in relation to that and you ran away and then started lying about me.

Originally posted by chaney3
Admitting design is much different than knowing who the designer is.

For example, in the spirituality forum, there is much debate about the trinity, whether Jesus was Himself God?

So why cannot a 'design' be at least just as easily be done by aliens or the tooth fairy rather than a 'god'? Why did you reject the hypothesis that hypothetical evidence for 'design' could be evidence for aliens? Don't like aliens because aliens isn't your God? Aliens would be vastly more believable because at least aliens don't require magic. A god or tooth fairy does require magic; big difference!

Originally posted by chaney3
But what if this bearded sage took your example a step further? And exited the cloud, came directly to you, and proclaimed that he was God?

I don't merely accept the word of Leprechauns. Leprechauns are not known to be particularly honest.

The real problem with this thread is you seem to think that people will merely take the word of an anonymous poster on the internet who clearly knows nothing about science, lies at the drop of the hat, doesn't care about facts and is known to have a drinking problem.
All you are actually doing is adding to the statistics of known delusional theists and thus making it seem like theism is less likely to be true.

Originally posted by chaney3
My voice is needed on this forum.

Because you stiffs cannot prove that God didn't do it. All you have are hypothesis generated from your own gods......yourselves.

Your voice is needed. You mean by you, when you can hear yourself over and over again, and we still are not converted and never will be, get that through your ultrareligious skull

Originally posted by twhitehead
I don't merely accept the word of Leprechauns. Leprechauns are not known to be particularly honest.

The real problem with this thread is you seem to think that people will merely take the word of an anonymous poster on the internet who clearly knows nothing about science, lies at the drop of the hat, doesn't care about facts and is known to have a dri ...[text shortened]... stics of known delusional theists and thus making it seem like theism is less likely to be true.

Would you be willing to provide a scientist, who is brilliant at his work, and sees design in his work?

Because it's not just me you reject (with my drinking problem), but you reject any credible scientist as well.

Name a scientist.

Originally posted by chaney3
Would you be willing to provide a scientist, who is brilliant at his work, and sees design in his work?

Because it's not just me you reject (with my drinking problem), but you reject any credible scientist as well.

Name a scientist.

Appeal to authority?

Originally posted by Soothfast
Appeal to authority?

Just stating the obvious.

Science is god to twhitehead, humy and sonhouse.....but only 'their approved scientist'. Not those pesky phd's who see design. Much bias going on here!

Originally posted by chaney3
Just stating the obvious.

Science is god to twhitehead, humy and sonhouse.....but only 'their approved scientist'. Not those pesky phd's who see design. Much bias going on here!

Of course there are PhD's out there who believe in "design." There are PhD's out there who believe all sorts of things. If anything that should inform you that the modern scientific establishment is not so dogmatic as some have been led to believe. The scientists of the world tolerate many viewpoints. Science itself, however, is more demanding.

But you're here, in this forum, where there do not happen to be any scientists who believe in design. So yeah, there's "bias going on here." What do you expect? Go back and answer the various questions put to you.

Originally posted by chaney3
Not those pesky phd's who see design.

Not many of them. In case you haven't already noticed, most phd's don't 'see design' and certainly don't see your God. Guess why that is! They are generally well educated in the facts about the real world and have noticed there doesn't seem to be any magic or gods or fairies to be seen nor be required to explain anything.

Originally posted by humy
Not many of them. In case you haven't already noticed, most phd's don't 'see design' and certainly don't see your God. Guess why that is! They are generally well educated in the facts about the real world.

Are you willing to name a Phd who, through evidence of his work, sees design?

And why you disagree with his findings?

This is not about me, you guys will disagree with anyone who dare to see design.