The science of denial

@Suzianne
Hey Suzianne, what's up with the Arizona power companies? Adding an extra charge just for folks with solar on the roof? I guess they don't care about the fact solar on roofs help out the demand for power, the power folks probably think those asssholes think they are going to get away with not paying US? We'll fix THAT.

@metal-brain said
So kill all the journalists? You are dangerous. That is why we need debates to sort out the truth from lies. People need to know you are full of crap so they don't believe your misinformation. When you continue to fail to show I am wrong people will know that you are full of crap.

Oh, the irony.

This is what is wrong in America. People, mainly MAGA hatters, have decided they are right in confusing trust in a source with a fact-based source. They will not believe the fully scientific source following the scientific method, but they will fully believe, and invest themselves in, a source that they can be convinced to trust, no matter how cockamamie the idea from the trusted source. This is precisely how they've come to believe the outrageous things issuing from the mouth of Donald Trump, or from Fox News, and nothing from a scientific source that explains exactly why Trump is wrong. "Oh, they don't like him and so they can't admit that he's right." How many times have we heard this?

Metal Brain's logic is similar. His trust in ridiculous sources is entirely driven by confirmation bias. They believe the same whack-a-doodle things he believes, so he trusts them to get other stuff right, regardless of the pseudo-science they rely on.

@sonhouse said
@Suzianne
Hey Suzianne, what's up with the Arizona power companies? Adding an extra charge just for folks with solar on the roof? I guess they don't care about the fact solar on roofs help out the demand for power, the power folks probably think those asssholes think they are going to get away with not paying US? We'll fix THAT.

Yep, that's about it. And on top of that, i heard from a source in the industry that both power companies, SRP and APS, have bought large tracts of land in Arizona to put solar panels on, investing directly in solar power themselves for clean energy, that they can then turn around and sell at extreme markup to their customers. Nice, huh? I guess the only answer is to become a stockholder of one or both companies.

@suzianne said
Oh, the irony.

This is what is wrong in America. People, mainly MAGA hatters, have decided they are right in confusing trust in a source with a fact-based source. They will not believe the fully scientific source following the scientific method, but they will fully believe, and invest themselves in, a source that they can be convinced to trust, no matter how cock ...[text shortened]... s, so he trusts them to get other stuff right, regardless of the pseudo-science they rely on.

Room for dissent allows more innovation. The bureaucratic folds in academic, pharmaceutical and health sectors, had come to dominate the scope of authoritative science some two decades ago. Long running dispute over racial demographics included those affected and impartial outsiders. Not everything WHO, NIH, FDA, CDC and NIAID backs is of unquestionable reputation. It may appear tendentious but you should give Trump credit for shaking up the establishment-based sources.

@Suzianne
Maybe the answer to that is to get enough solar and batteries like the ones made by Tesla, whole house batteries, cut the plug to the power companies and go rogue🙂
I don't think they can do a thing about that yet anyway.
Some states are banning collecting rainwater from your own roof so they would probably come up with some draconian solar tax or other.

@Of-Ants-and-Imps
I would not give Trump the time of day much less kudo's for shaking up establishment.
He did that for sure but when you have a former POTUS during his years in office and the Covid pandemic hit he played it down month after month, telling folks to ingest bleach or stick a UV light up our asses and even worse, when the medical supplies were so limited states would make a deal with some company for say ventilators in at least one case feds literally stole the whole lot and gave them to nice republican states. Later we found why he was reluctant to deal with covid, it seems he had stock in competing companies and when Pfizer and Moderna were talking vaccines, he did not want to lose money in his own stock and that is one big reason why he delayed action for month after month with the deaths rising and to me that says he has blood on his hands from deaths he could have stopped with early action, my guess is several hundred thousand died because of the incompetence of Trump.

@of-ants-and-imps said
Room for dissent allows more innovation. The bureaucratic folds in academic, pharmaceutical and health sectors, had come to dominate the scope of authoritative science some two decades ago. Long running dispute over racial demographics included those affected and impartial outsiders. Not everything WHO, NIH, FDA, CDC and NIAID backs is of unquestionable reputation. I ...[text shortened]... appear tendentious but you should give Trump credit for shaking up the establishment-based sources.

The people who follow him distrust the science merely because he says so.

Calling them "establishment-based" sounds like you believe they have questionable science, which is far from the truth.

Your whole post seems like you're straddling the edge of the cliff into conspiratorial belief.

@sonhouse said
@Suzianne
Maybe the answer to that is to get enough solar and batteries like the ones made by Tesla, whole house batteries, cut the plug to the power companies and go rogue🙂
I don't think they can do a thing about that yet anyway.
Some states are banning collecting rainwater from your own roof so they would probably come up with some draconian solar tax or other.

Yes, but don't expect to be able to sell your excess power back to the power companies.

Draconian solar tax? Yeah, I could see that. Here in Arizona, they have the Corporation Commission, which is supposed to act like a watchdog on corporations, who love, love, love the power companies and give them everything they want, especially rate increases.

@Suzianne
It's amazing how far a bribe, sorry, lobby money will go, eh. So the gist is, if you get solar, go rogue, cut the cord to the power company, make sure you have enough battery backup to go all night long and a propane tank with generator for emergency power if we get like a weeklong storm or some such.
Before I heard about the payback for selling excess solar power but paying some one penny a kwhr I realized it would not be worth it to overbuild your own solar array, put in just enough to cover your home and charge batteries for nightfall.
Of course that means you need three times the daily need, since you only get 8 hours max of decent solar energy. So if your house runs on say 2 Kw average 24 hours a day, you would need 6 or 7 Kw of solar to cover nighttime assuming you have about 50 Kw hr of battery or so. lets see, 2 Kw for 16 hours, 32 Kwhrs yeah so 50 Kw battery would do it I think. It might be better than that but in Arizona I know OUR AC on the roof ran some 20 hours a day even at midnight. There was a permanent trickle coming off the roof of condensation from that sucker and even IT had to have a cover shield to keep it from overheating. We used to live in Scottdale by the now defunct Los Arcos Mall where we could see the 'hole in the wall'. It turned out not to be a good idea to try to ride a motorcycle up to the hole🙂
Some of that might change since the technology of extracting energy from heat sources is getting more efficient these days, and since your roof would be up to some 200 degrees or thereabouts a subsidiary of black pipes just filled with water could be used to convert THAT to electricity. And there are newer solar cells that generate energy all night long from just the left over heat on the roof at night, maybe 5 or 10% more just from that alone.