Originally posted by shortcircuitThe graph is just an enhancement of course and as you say it doesn't address any of the collusion or sandbagging issues.
But Dave, I can already do everything you said, sans having a graph that is for the most part, pretty worthless IMO. Why would a "clan's graph" make it any easier or harder to get challenges than it already is? It won't Am I to infer that if my clan has an average rating of 1300 and the clan I am proposing to play has a 1400 clan rating, that I should w ...[text shortened]... hat we have had experience with.
So, I ask again, how does this address any of these issues?
I expect Russ thought it might be a useful reference.
Perhap's eventually it'll be replaced by the wagon wheels(which i've never liked by the way) like the individual graphs were.
The clan rating filter however is good I think.
The sooner it becomes the default view the better
Anything is better than the net points list which is at the centre of all the problems.
Originally posted by vendaMy point is that the net points is one scoring system that can be replaced.
The graph is just an enhancement of course and as you say it doesn't address any of the collusion or sandbagging issues.
I expect Russ thought it might be a useful reference.
Perhap's eventually it'll be replaced by the wagon wheels(which i've never liked by the way) like the individual graphs were.
The clan rating filter however is good I think.
The soone ...[text shortened]... better
Anything is better than the net points list which is at the centre of all the problems.
But the clan average as a metric does nothing.
Except to replace the current scoring system.
For the sake of replacing the current scoring system.
Let's come up with something that works.
I have a few commitments at the moment.
But when I get free time, I will dig through the other thread for my post that was built on some of Giannotti's ideas and work from there.
Originally posted by vendaDave, I get that you want to play golf for the love of playing golf, and not for the $1 per hole skin or the $1 greenie per hole. That is fine for some, but others enjoy "eyeing the prize" so to speak. If you have nothing to gauge the competition with other than a clan rating which means absolutely nothing, it becomes unworthy of the effort. It has always been that all clans did not care to "go for the gold", they preferred to play. That is still fine, but I can play for fun anywhere, as can everyone else. The competitive aspect is the draw, not the game itself. Remove the competitive yardstick, lose the interest in the game.
The graph is just an enhancement of course and as you say it doesn't address any of the collusion or sandbagging issues.
I expect Russ thought it might be a useful reference.
Perhap's eventually it'll be replaced by the wagon wheels(which i've never liked by the way) like the individual graphs were.
The clan rating filter however is good I think.
The soone ...[text shortened]... better
Anything is better than the net points list which is at the centre of all the problems.
It is good to see the clan rating and the previous clan rating, before and after each challenge. One comment though: it appears that a drawn challenge does not change either clan's rating. This is not how I expect an elo-based rating system to work. In individual ratings, if a lower-rated player draws a higher-rated one, his rating goes up (and the higher-rated player's goes down), though not as much as if he had beaten the higher-rated player. I expect elo-based clan ratings also to change if a lower-rated clan draws a higher-rated one.
At the moment I did not understand the new system. But this is not important. Give this system a chance. I believe we will see in the future how it will function for our problems.
For a better acceptance, the clantable should be reduced, only the ELO of each clan should be shown. The other netpoints etc should be unseen for a while.
Originally posted by Johannes GoetheA bit extreme Johannes, but we're basically in agreement.The net points list is the problem.
At the moment I did not understand the new system. But this is not important. Give this system a chance. I believe we will see in the future how it will function for our problems.
For a better acceptance, the clantable should be reduced, only the ELO of each clan should be shown. The other netpoints etc should be unseen for a while.
Can anyone explain to me how this is a good thing to even try
Currently the positions would be
1st Played 24 challenges won 16
2nd Played 105 challenges won 66
3rd Played 62 challenges won 30
4th Played 52 challenges won 24
5th Played 80 challenges won 42
As I said the only thing it proves is the less challenges you play the better
This system may well work on an individual basis but it cannot work on a group of players all playing different ratings
The sooner this idea is gone the better
Originally posted by padgerRuss is aware of this issue Padg.
Can anyone explain to me how this is a good thing to even try
Currently the positions would be
1st Played 24 challenges won 16
2nd Played 105 challenges won 66
3rd Played 62 challenges won 30
4th Played 52 challenges won 24
5th Played 80 challenges won 42
As I said the only thing it proves is the less challenges you play the better
This system may wel ...[text shortened]... ork on a group of players all playing different ratings
The sooner this idea is gone the better
He's already suggested a clan playing few challenges and then going inactive could be, to use his words "be easily policed"
Perhaps incorporating a percentage factor would help.
I say give it a whirl and see what transpires.
it can always be scrapped at a later date.
Originally posted by Johannes GoetheFor this system to work it would need a computer the size of the one in "Hitch Hikers Guide to the galaxy "
This is the attitude of most humans, when something is new there are not happy about.
I think this system should have a chance. The old system did not function anymore.
There is no fair way this system can match up all the variables needed to make it work
Lets drop the whole thing now before we go down a hole that there is no recovery from
If this system was applied to the football league it would pair up the leaders of the 3RD division with the leaders of the Premier division because they have a similar averages of wins loses and draws
But we all know that there is a vast difference between the two
As Venda says the problems with the old system was the negative points which should never have applied and the collussions that apparently went on
Lets get back to these problems not some airy fairy idea that some one came up with
Originally posted by vendanet points is not the problem
The graph is just an enhancement of course and as you say it doesn't address any of the collusion or sandbagging issues.
I expect Russ thought it might be a useful reference.
Perhap's eventually it'll be replaced by the wagon wheels(which i've never liked by the way) like the individual graphs were.
The clan rating filter however is good I think.
The soone ...[text shortened]... better
Anything is better than the net points list which is at the centre of all the problems.
collusion between a few clans is the problem easily fixed remove them remove the problem
this new system will not stop collusion, no system will only points removal and suspensions will stop it.
Originally posted by padgera total waste of time, this will never work no system ever will until collusion has been punished
If this system was applied to the football league it would pair up the leaders of the 3RD division with the leaders of the Premier division because they have a similar averages of wins loses and draws
But we all know that there is a vast difference between the two
As Venda says the problems with the old system was the negative points which should never have ...[text shortened]... tly went on
Lets get back to these problems not some airy fairy idea that some one came up with
first step should be to bring back integrity. Russ has said there was a few in collusion, everyone knows certain clans cheated and still are.
perhaps we can finally get a straight answer, a simple yes or no from Russ
are you going to punish those involved?
just yes or no so everyone in limbo can finally decide what to do