Originally posted by BigDoggProblem I hate to say it, but I bet Russ brings in more members by working the Android and iOS apps than he loses by leaving the clan system in its current state.
Yes, I wish existent parts of the site could get some developer attention too. This is the problem of having a lone programmer trying to keep multiple platforms up to snuff.
This is about an accurate a comment as I have heard.
I basically said the same thing from a different angle a couple of months back.
This was when suggestions for improvements to the clan feature were flying in from all over.
I commented at the time that site, at the most, would review the proposals, cost them, and then file them under "useless".
This site has more important issues to worry about.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem Agree. The clan system has always been broken.
The mere fact that a group of 1200 players can be crowned champion of anything chess related rankles. (Even with the assumption that they did it entirely with "fair" challenges.)
It can't be fixed with "anything goes" because engine cheats would then always win it.
The clan system had structural flaws from inception. This past year it has been made patently obvious how childishly simple it is to exploit them. Numerous posts analysed these flaws and numerous solutions were proposed. There was no consensus on what the flaws are, much less on any solution.
It seems to me that hoping for either of the following solutions is vain: a) that site admin does something to correct the flaws, and b) that self-regulation suffices to cease exploiting the flaws.
I propose two further means of dealing with the situation: c) vote with your feet, or d) continue to play clan games but pay no heed to the putative standings (which are meaningless, given the inherent flaws in the method of calculating the standings). Neither of these options corrects the flaws, but they offer a means of living with them without griping about them every day.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem I hate to say it, but I bet Russ brings in more members by working the Android and iOS apps than he loses by leaving the clan system in its current state.
Yes, I wish existent parts of the site could get some developer attention too. This is the problem of having a lone programmer trying to keep multiple platforms up to snuff.
Rather a lot depends on where the revenue comes from: subscriptions or adverts. If the lion's share comes from adverts, then there is little incentive to fix the things which irk subscribers.
Originally posted by shortcircuit If we are paying money for this, we are getting screwed.
There is a contract to provide service that is severely lacking in some areas.
Tournaments have become a joke because too many are allowed to
enter and then mass resign in an effort to manipulate a rating that is
not anywhere close to accurate. Russ has known about this and does
nothin ...[text shortened]...
It isn't going to get any better folks!! Not unless someone wakes up and
fixes the problems.
Back to the point.
Bravo. Well-said.
If the admins don't give a damn about the Clan System, then they should just rip it out and watch all the subs evaporate away. Keeping a system in place but not managing it with some integrity is almost as bad. The subs just evaporate away more slowly. Same result over time.
Originally posted by moonbus The clan system had structural flaws from inception. This past year it has been made patently obvious how childishly simple it is to exploit them. Numerous posts analysed these flaws and numerous solutions were proposed. There was no consensus on what the flaws are, much less on any solution.
It seems to me that hoping for either of the following solution ...[text shortened]... ects the flaws, but they offer a means of living with them without griping about them every day.
We've been hoping against hope that griping about the problems we see might spur those in charge to actually do something about them. Much like calling your congressman to weigh in about pending legislation.
Unfortunately, we're seeing the same results. Big fat bupkis.
Originally posted by Suzianne We've been hoping against hope that griping about the problems we see might spur those in charge to actually do something about them. Much like calling your congressman to weigh in about pending legislation.
Unfortunately, we're seeing the same results. Big fat bupkis.
I'm loath to use the word "Realpolitik", but it seems that hitting someone in the pocketbook may be the only way to get someone's attention around here. The risk, of course, is that once subs leave, they may never come back, even if reforms are carried out.
Originally posted by padger Have a look at some tournaments that include Mctayto
It might make you change your mind
I agree largely with knightstalker and biggdogg on this.
Everyone knows what McTayto is doing - he even says so in his profile. He is in several clans which means that those clan leaders are happy to try and pass him off as a 1100 to 1200 player. Clan leaders administer the system. If clan leaders don't agree with Robbie and others action they can gift the requisite number of challenge points "as a protest" to either Wycombe or Metallica before year's end to wipe the smile off his face. All the OP has to do is persuade them. If the clan forum was used more for administration and less for trash talk a way out of this might be found whilst Russ is busy elsewhere.
Originally posted by Ragwort I agree largely with knightstalker and biggdogg on this.
Everyone knows what McTayto is doing - he even says so in his profile. He is in several clans which means that those clan leaders are happy to try and pass him off as a 1100 to 1200 player. Clan leaders administer the system. If clan leaders don't agree with Robbie and others action they can gift ...[text shortened]... stration and less for trash talk a way out of this might be found whilst Russ is busy elsewhere.
Whoa, nelly, gifting points to Metallica, simply to defeat Robbie and co.? In the immortal words of John McEnroe, you cannot be serious!
Originally posted by moonbus Whoa, nelly, gifting points to Metallica, simply to defeat Robbie and co.? In the immortal words of John McEnroe, you cannot be serious!
I believe he said Wycombe and Metallica !!
But your Whoa Nelly is strictly reserved for Metallica !!
Originally posted by moonbus Rather a lot depends on where the revenue comes from: subscriptions or adverts. If the lion's share comes from adverts, then there is little incentive to fix the things which irk subscribers.
personally i would hope fairness and integrity would be more important than revenue.
two clans did the same last year both got suspended the same lot plus a few others are doing the same again but on a bigger scale but nothing is being donesame with the page one engines .
Originally posted by roma45 personally i would hope fairness and integrity would be more important than revenue.
This has proven to be a vain hope.
... two clans did the same last year both got suspended the same lot plus a few others are doing the same again but on a bigger scale but nothing is being donesame with the page one engines .
The fact that the previous suspensions did not solve the problem speaks volumes.
There are three issues: 1. Some people have a different idea than others what constitutes fair play. 2. The system has inherent weaknesses which have been exploited by some people with a different idea of fairness than others. 3. The data (clan standings and individual ratings) have been corrupted by people abusing the weaknesses of the system.
Suspending offenders last time did not fix what is wrong with the system or correct the corrupted data. Suspending them again won't fix those problems this time either.
How about new site administrators who actually care?
20 Dec '16 17:17
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