Am I a real Christian?

Originally posted by Suzianne
I think what he is saying is more along the lines of: You're not doing as Jesus commanded. He commanded to go out and teach truth. What you guys are pushing is your version of the truth.

Well the fact is we are doing JUST as Jesus said to the letter in the teaching work world wide. You can disagree all you want with our beliefs as even here at RHP you all disagree with each another everyday, every post, every sentence. So nothing new there...
So Jesus very clearly described many points on how to identify his followers and exactly what they would be going in reguards to his commands.
No self professed Christian can pick and choose what they like, what feels good, is easy, and makes the world like you.
In fact Jesus said his work would be hard, and even deadly to those doing this and would be hated by who? "All the nations".

So one can sit back and point their little fingers at us and scoff and hate us just as Jesus said you would. As I said it's only because of one's guilt and lack of commitment to Jesus commands that you guys always attack our total commitment to Jesus's words..........

If anyone here can produce ((((((((( 1 ))))))))))) scripture that cancels out Jesus commands to teach door to door earthwide just as he did and told all Christians to do, then show me that scripture and I will stop the teaching work today and will send this scripture to the WTS and tell them they are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by galveston75
Well the fact is we are doing JUST as Jesus said to the letter in the teaching work world wide. You can disagree all you want with our beliefs as even here at RHP you all disagree with each another everyday, every post, every sentence. So nothing new there...
So Jesus very clearly described many points on how to identify his followers and exactly what ...[text shortened]... ching work today and will send this scripture to the WTS and tell them they are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!

I would say you guys are probably like the guy that was given the one talent.

Originally posted by divegeester
Thanks.

At the risk of opening up the "trinity thing" I'll ask some questions, but let's keep it pragmatic rather than dogmatic if possible.

I do want to love God; bearing mind the three [b]distinct persons of the godhead, who do I direct my love at the Father, Jesus or the Holy Spirit? Which one of these persons should live in me and which on ...[text shortened]... others but so do most atheists I know, how do I distinguish my compassion from their compassion?[/b]

I don't look at anyones compassion as being different, one from another. You either have it or you don't. This is why i don't condemn the Atheist, in many cases they are more christian than the christians. They are also sons and daughters of God. (Psst, they just don't know it, yet!!!)

God is God, if you choose to believe in the Trinity, ok so be it. But God is still One God. It is a part of the mystery of God. Believe in God and you'll be just fine. Don't even need all the fancy names. God is sufficient. If you want more of a focus, it would be the Father. Even Jesus tells us to go to the Father. Jesus tells us to be like Him, and He was always praying to the Father. "Father forgive them, they know not what they are doing."

Loving God includes showing compassion for anyone in need. And compassion does not sit idly by. You know when the Spirit moves in you when the urge comes to stop the old lady from shoveling snow on her sidewalk, and you do it for her. Not even looking for a thank you. You do it not for the reward (a thank you, money, other things) you do it because you want to.

You know when the Spirit moves you when the urge comes to give someone your winter coat. They are shivering, and you have many coats at home.

You know when the Spirit moves in you when the urge comes out of the blue to call some friend you haven't heard from in years.

A kind word, Etc. Etc.

It isn't in hearing the Word of God, but in recieving the Word. And when the compassion moves in you, to follow though with it. And God will already be living in you.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Correct.

I think I was pretty clear in that thread (A life saved from the madness); to recap: a pair of Jehovah's Witness parents were allowing their daughter to die by preventing a life saving blood transfusion and the state intervened to save the girls life. Kelly was protesting that the parents had the right to control the girls life for the sake of personal freedom and the sake of their conscience before their god.

My position was that I was horrified that he would hold that view especially as he was not a Jehovah's Witness himself. His argument was that the parents conscience had been insulted by the state imposing a blood transfusion.

I say this is a total nonsense and it genuinely scares me that someone would hold the position Kelly holds. I'm not sure what there is in here that you are chasing?

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm not sure what there is in here that you are chasing?

Rather than get caught up in that thread again, lets look at some scenarios:
1. Suppose a theist believes that God does not want him to renounce his faith in Jesus. Suppose he is told 'renounce your faith or die'. He chooses to die rather than renounce his faith. Do you understand that stance, or do you think he is a total nutcase?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Rather than get caught up in that thread again, lets look at some scenarios:
1. Suppose a theist believes that God does not want him to renounce his faith in Jesus. Suppose he is told 'renounce your faith or die'. He chooses to die rather than renounce his faith. Do you understand that stance, or do you think he is a total nutcase?

A martyr scenario faced in real life by many people. To die for what you believe in is presumed worthy I suppose, depending on the circumstances. Jesus came to die but not what he believed in, rather what he wanted. He also said "unless a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die it remains alone". So there is a powerful principle in play.

However in my normal little life if someone put a gun to my head and said "renounce your faith or die", I'd renounce it - or to be precise, I would say the words to save my life.

But that's not the question you were originally asking which was about the morality of murder when the afterlife is there anyway. I think you were saying this.

Originally posted by divegeester
A martyr scenario faced in real life by many people. To die for what you believe in is presumed worthy I suppose, depending on the circumstances. Jesus came to die but not what he believed in, rather what he wanted. He also said "unless a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die it remains alone". So there is a powerful principle in play.

However i ...[text shortened]... s about the morality of murder when the afterlife is there anyway. I think you were saying this.

That sounds like a good Muslim.

Originally posted by divegeester
But that's not the question you were originally asking which was about the morality of murder when the afterlife is there anyway. I think you were saying this.

Yes, and I think you answered it for your case. Now I am asking what you think about other theists evaluation of the value of life.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yes, and I think you answered it for your case. Now I am asking what you think about other theists evaluation of the value of life.

Generally ok, but in this forum there are a few people who need to stop and think about the morality of what they beleive. Ok holding theists beliefs is irrational, but often good actions come from those beliefs. The Kelly debate was one example of there opposite. There are others such as those who comfortably believe that God has created a place where those who reject him will be burnt in an inclinator not just for a second (although that would be bad enough), but for all eternity. I cannot fathom these people - how much of a step is it from that belief to being comfortable with killing because these people are infidels anyway.

I'm going to be starting a thread on "the restoration of all things soon", this may bring out some interesting views from those with the balls to air them.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I would say you guys are probably like the guy that was given the one talent.

Where's that scripture Ron? Show me that one that says not to do what we do? I'll be waiting.....

Originally posted by galveston75
Well the fact is we are doing JUST as Jesus said to the letter in the teaching work world wide. You can disagree all you want with our beliefs as even here at RHP you all disagree with each another everyday, every post, every sentence. So nothing new there...
So Jesus very clearly described many points on how to identify his followers and exactly what ...[text shortened]... ching work today and will send this scripture to the WTS and tell them they are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!

What I do agree with is that the world might be a better place if Christians would spread the Good News of the Gospel in as plain a way as possible, without embellishment, without partisanship, without an axe to grind, without a chip on one's shoulder.

A lot of Christians DO do this, regardless of what people like Rajk and you and robbie say. We do not extol our works here because they stand on their own merit and do not need validation by the self-righteous types. That it is assumed that no works are being done shows how much boasting these people are trying to do, making it seem like they are the elite, the ONLY ones 'following Christ's words', when nothing is further from the truth. In fact we cannot know if these self-righteous people come home from their works and kick their dog or treat their family like dirt. I would just like to see all the self-righteous assuming to stop. Christ also commanded us to "love our Christian brothers" and I don't see a lot of people harping on THAT, even though there's a lot less of that going on than good works.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
I don't look at anyones compassion as being different, one from another. You either have it or you don't. This is why i don't condemn the Atheist, in many cases they are more christian than the christians. They are also sons and daughters of God. (Psst, they just don't know it, yet!!!)

God is God, if you choose to believe in the Trinity, ok so be it. But ...[text shortened]... en the compassion moves in you, to follow though with it. And God will already be living in you.

Bravo!

Originally posted by twhitehead
Rather than get caught up in that thread again, lets look at some scenarios:
1. Suppose a theist believes that God does not want him to renounce his faith in Jesus. Suppose he is told 'renounce your faith or die'. He chooses to die rather than renounce his faith. Do you understand that stance, or do you think he is a total nutcase?

This is the only stance for a Christian to take.

Anything else is pure lip service.

Either a Christian takes His covenant with God seriously, or he does not.

If he does not, you can rest assured that God will not, either.

Originally posted by divegeester
A martyr scenario faced in real life by many people. To die for what you believe in is presumed worthy I suppose, depending on the circumstances. Jesus came to die but not what he believed in, rather what he wanted. He also said "unless a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die it remains alone". So there is a powerful principle in play.

However i ...[text shortened]... s about the morality of murder when the afterlife is there anyway. I think you were saying this.

Words have weight.

Remember the words of your acceptance of Christ's sacrifice for your sins? There is weight there, they mean something. God takes you at your word, He makes covenant with us that He will fulfill His promises to us, if only we accept His Son's sacrifice on the cross. Do you expect Him to understand your words renouncing your faith as "just words"?

Integrity. Words have meaning.

Originally posted by galveston75
Where's that scripture Ron? Show me that one that says not to do what we do? I'll be waiting.....

Why do you twist what he says?

Does he SAY there is scripture saying not to preach the Word to the world?

That is, IF that is what you presume to be doing. After all, there is the Word of God, then there is a man's *version* of the Word of God.