An Invitation

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Since dinosaurs are classified as prehistoric creatures they would have preceded Adam when human history began.

In round numbers, how much time would you say elapsed between the age of dinosaurs and the arrival of Adam?

Originally posted by HandyAndy
In round numbers, how much time would you say elapsed between the age of dinosaurs and the arrival of Adam?

Today I've also been wondering. Rather than speculate or offer an opinion, I'll make an inquiry with a reliable resource.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Since dinosaurs are classified as prehistoric creatures they would have preceded Adam when human history began.

Prehistory and prehistoric refer to the period of time before written records were made. Before written records, there was only oral tradition that relied on memory and spoken language.

I didn't know this is the correct definition of prehistory until a few years ago.

So how long after the dinosaurs went extinct did homo sapiens appear.

Originally posted by JS357
Prehistory and prehistoric refer to the period of time before written records were made. Before written records, there was only oral tradition that relied on memory and spoken language.

I didn't know this is the correct definition of prehistory until a few years ago.

So how long after the dinosaurs went extinct did homo sapiens appear.

Originally posted by JS357
"Prehistory and prehistoric refer to the period of time before written records were made. Before written records, there was only oral tradition that relied on memory and spoken language." From a secular standpoint; however, as noted on page 5....

"In speaking to Job God confirmed that the angels preexisted creation: Job 38:4-7 (NASB) 4 "Where were you [Job] when I [God] laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, 5 Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? 6 On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 When the morning stars [angels] sang together And all the sons of God [the entire angelic creation] shouted for joy?" They "shouted for joy" when the universe, "the heavens and earth", were created: Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Today I've also been wondering. Rather than speculate or offer an opinion, I'll make an inquiry with a reliable resource.

My reliable resource says that dinosaurs became extinct 65,000,000 years ago, and modern humans most likely made their first appearance between 150,000 and 200,000 years ago.

Does that leave a gaping hole in the Genesis account?

Originally posted by HandyAndy
My reliable resource says that dinosaurs became extinct 65,000,000 years ago, and modern humans most likely made their first appearance between 150,000 and 200,000 years ago.

Does that leave a gaping hole in the Genesis account?

Andy, still waiting for an authoritative answer to your question. From what I've learned over the years from secular and biblical sources, agrees with your resource [the age of dinosaurs ended between 65 and 66 million years ago]. From Adam to Christ is approximately 4,000 years; add another 2,000 plus from His First Advent to the present to realize that mankind is relatively new to the earth while the universe itself may be 10-12 billion years old for all we know [Genesis 1:1 creation of heavens and earth; gap or void between Genesis 1:1 and earth's restoration in Genesis 1:2; and since the creation of man].

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Would you agree that discussion of biblical references in an online spirituality
forum should avoid confusion while generating more light than heat?

Would you agree that discussion of biblical references in an online spirituality forum should avoid confusion while generating more light than heat?

As a Christian to admit that I don't know something to an assumed seeker of truth, I don't think is it introduce confusion.

And I think "light" from a believer can take on more forms than just correct information. I think one can shine "light" sometimes by manifesting some genuine humility.

I am happy if some questioning person will decide to pick up a Bible and begin to really read for themselves to see what is there. This can be a real spiritual victory for the truth because the Holy Spirit Himself may very well begin to speak from the pages of the Bible to any reader far far beyond what I could hope.

If two Christians are speaking and one says "I really know the answer to such and such matter" and another, his brother in Christ replies "As for me, I don't know for sure," I don't think is necessarily to introduce confusion.

I am not sure how dinosaurs fit into the picture of what I believe the Bible has revealed to man about the will of God, God's salvation and God's purpose.

Maybe you know. Maybe you have some insight into the relationship that I don't have. I am telling the questioner - "I am not sure." The Lord has not revealed too much to me about it. I am opened to hear some views if put forth in a good spirit.

Anyway, for posters to decide they want to start to read something in the word of God for themselves to see what is there, causes me joy.

Originally posted by sonship

Would you agree that discussion of biblical references in an online spirituality forum should avoid confusion while generating more light than heat?

As a Christian to admit that I don't know something to an assumed seeker of truth, I don't think is it introduce confusion.

And I think "light" from a believer can take on more forms than ...[text shortened]... nt to start to read something in the word of God for themselves to see what is there, causes me joy.

"... for posters to decide they want to start to read something in the word of God for themselves to see what is there, causes me joy." sonship, salvation is the only information an unbeliever can understand in the Word of God: No frame of reference.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby

"... for posters to decide they want to start to read something in the word of God for themselves to see what is there, causes me joy." sonship, salvation is the only information an unbeliever can understand in the Word of God: No frame of reference.

I haven't said anything to the contrary.

Salvation is the Person of Jesus. And if a person of their own accord begins to read the God breathed Scriptures there is a good chance something of God's breath - will touch them and draw them to the Person of Christ.

A person opens the Bible to read may find something there feeds their innermost being. They can come forward to the living God within the word of God.

Jeremiah 15:16 - King James Bible
Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

We despise not the day of small things. A man finds that there is "food" in the word of God which causes his heart to rejoice. They have drawn near to salvation. They draw near to the living Person of Christ who is salvation.

I do not mean to make a dichotomy - ie. "Read the Bible verses receive teaching." It is not intended to establish a false dichotomy. I only said we should be happy if a person begins to open the Bible and look into it with a seeking heart. They may be touched by the living God who breathed out the Bible.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Other Translations of Romans 10:17

So then, faith commeth by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
- King James Version (1611) -

So faith {comes} from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
- New American Standard Version (1995)

So belief `cometh' of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
- American Standard Version (1901)

Hearing of the word of God will cause faith to rise up in the hearts if God has mercy upon them. So I am glad if in a discussion on any biblical theme, someone decides to read for themselves the word of God, which upon hearing, may produce saving faith according to Romans 10:17.

Again, this is not "Do this and don't do the other." Good teaching is excellent. And to read the word of God is wonderful.

To receive the word of God can save our souls -

James 1:21

American Standard Version
Wherefore putting away all filthiness and overflowing of wickedness, receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Wherefore casting away all uncleanness, and abundance of naughtiness, with meekness receive the ingrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Once again, lest we forget - I am not saying "Read the Bible and do not let anyone explain or expound." There is no false dichotomy being established.
It is great if someone begins to read the Bible, especially when we also pray for them to touch light and life in its pages.

Originally posted by sonship

"... for posters to decide they want to start to read something in the word of God for themselves to see what is there, causes me joy." sonship, salvation is the only information an unbeliever can understand in the Word of God: No frame of reference.

I haven't said anything to the contrary.

Salvation is the Person of Jesus. And if Bible, especially when we also pray for them to touch light and life in its pages.

"Anyway, for posters to decide they want to start to read something in the word of God for themselves to see what is there, causes me joy." sonship, the preponderance of contributors to this spirituality forum are self professed agnostics or atheists. Salvation is the only information an unbeliever can understand in the Word of God: No frame of reference or human spirit.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby

sonship, the preponderance of contributors to this spirituality forum are self professed agnostics or atheists. Salvation is the only information an unbeliever can understand in the Word of God: No frame of reference or human spirit.

At any given moment you do not know who may be reading. I don't know about you but I pray often after posting for God to lead someone, to read.

I don't think there is an argument against hoping posters may read the Bible. And I don't think I have said anything suggesting salvation is not vital to any reader.

I have looked at your phrase a couple of times to see what you mean by this "No frame of reference or human spirit."

I am not sure what you have in mind here. But there is no salvation unless the human spirit is touched. There is no conviction of human conscience without the human spirit being touched. And there is no one who is born again unless the human spirit is born of God.

So the very reason I am glad that anyone begins to read the Bible is totally a matter of their human spirit being touched, even that the human spirit would be enlivened and regenerated -

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)

OF COURSE reading the Bible and having the human spirit touched by the Spirit of God, is my hope.

Originally posted by sonship

sonship, the preponderance of contributors to this spirituality forum are self professed agnostics or atheists. Salvation is the only information an unbeliever can understand in the Word of God: No frame of reference or human spirit.

At any given moment you do not know who may be reading. I don't know about you but I pray often af ...[text shortened]... F COURSE reading the Bible and having the human spirit touched by the Spirit of God, is my hope.

"So the very reason I am glad that anyone begins to read the Bible is totally a matter of their human spirit being touched, even that the human spirit would be enlivened and regenerated..."

sonship, "the human spirit" is acquired at the moment of salvation [a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ] by the regeneration work [spiritual birth and imputation of eternal life] of God the Holy Spirit; it enables the believer to now understand and utilize Bible doctrine to grow in grace [acquiring the Mind of Christ]. The truths revealed in God's Word are spiritually discerned by trichotomous human beings [body, soul and spirit]. What is "being touched" in context?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
..."the human spirit" is acquired at the moment of salvation [a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ] by the regeneration work [spiritual birth and imputation of eternal life] of God the Holy Spirit; it enables the believer to now understand and utilize Bible doctrine to grow in grace [acquiring the Mind of Christ]. The trut ...[text shortened]... cerned by trichotomous human beings [body, soul and spirit]. What is "being touched" in context?

The suggestion that people who do not believe in the things you claim about Christ, or have not had "the moment of salvation" that you happen to believe in, somehow do not possess "human spirit" is completely absurd and provides a clear example of how fanatical religionists end up literally dehumanizing those whose beliefs differ from theirs.

Originally posted by FMF
The suggestion that people who do not believe in the things you claim about Christ, or have not had "the moment of salvation" that you happen to believe in, somehow do not possess "human spirit" is completely absurd and provides a clear example of how fanatical religionists end up literally dehumanizing those whose beliefs differ from theirs.

And the rational [rather than an emotional] basis of these conclusions?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby

sonship, "the human spirit" is acquired at the moment of salvation [a rational decision to choose for rather than against Christ] by the regeneration work [spiritual birth and imputation of eternal life] of God the Holy Spirit;

The human spirit is regenerated at the moment of salvation. Regenerated is different from created. It is to awaken or make alive something that is deadened - RE-generate.

The created man apart from regeneration is deadened in the innermost kernel of his being, in his spirit.

"Even when we were dead in offenses, made us alive together in Christ (by grace you have been saved)." (Eph. 2:5)

The physical heart beat so the body was not dead in that sense.
The soul was thinking, deciding, emoting. So the soul was not dead.

If the body was not dead and the soul was not dead then what WAS dead among man's related parts? The human spirit was dead or comatose and in need of being made alive.

it enables the believer to now understand and utilize Bible doctrine to grow in grace [acquiring the Mind of Christ]. The truths revealed in God's Word are spiritually discerned by trichotomous human beings [body, soul and spirit]. What is "being touched" in context?

I may attempt to relate this to the topic at hand. But until I can see how to do that, I would agree with the trichotomous human being (1 Thess. 5:23) . However, you may be saying BEFORE regeneration man is not trichotomous but dichotomous and AFTER regeneration only man is trichotomous.

But a damaged human spirit is not a non-existent human spirit.
A comatose or deadened human spirit is not a non-existent human spirit.
It is in need of quickening.
It is in need of being regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
It is in need of being made alive.

God created man (even before regeneration) with a human spirit.

Zechariah 12:1 - "The burden of the word of Jehovah concerning Israel. Thus declares Jehovah, who stretches forth the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him. "

God creates the human spirit within man.

You may wonder why I use the word comatose or the word deadened. It is because there is something functioning a little in the damaged human spirit. That is the conscience. And even in the unregenerated man the human conscience is part of the damaged spirit and has some function.

This is related to the spirit of man being the lamp of Jehovah -

Proverbs 20:27 - "The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah, Searching all the innermost parts of the inner being."

The human conscience searches informs the innermost parts of the inner being. This must mean that the SOUL is illumined by something deeper - the lamp of Jehovah - the human conscience.

Even in the unregenerated man the human conscience informs him within about good and evil. So God created the spirit of man within him. And though it is deadened the conscience part of it at least has some limited function to convict all men and women within.

How much "touching" is "touching"? I will not attempt to go too far with.
My point here is that all men come into the world with a three-part being - spirit and soul and body. And to say we only have soul and body before being saved but have spirit and soul and body after we are saved, I am sure is not right.

God hardened Pharoah's spirit Deut. 2:30. This must mean He hardened his conscience so that he would not repent. That means the conscience is part of the spirit.

Pharoah's conscience was HARDENED.
Pharoah's spirit, even his fallen spirit, was hardened.

How much a "touch" is a "touch" I may not be able to explain. But if the Holy Spirit softens the spirit of man, ie. softens his conscience about his sins and distance from God, his spirit will be born of the Spirit of God in being born again.