This was posted by a Christian on another thread:
The atheist will never want to hear at all about the miracles peformed in the Church in the subsequent centuries [after Christ] - don't even go there...
To which I responded: "All the miracles performed in the Church in the subsequent centuries"... you believe they were all for real?
The reply: There will always be frauds wherever humans are involved but there are, of course, many genuine miracles.
This raises an interesting question or two. Is there a list somewhere of the real miracles that leaves off all the ones that were frauds or figments of people's imaginations? Or does it not matter whether miracles are real or bogus?
@fmf saidI have seen two occurrences which I believe were miracles; one probably, the other definitely.
This was posted by a Christian on another thread:
The atheist will never want to hear at all about the miracles peformed in the Church in the subsequent centuries [after Christ] - don't even go there...
To which I responded: "All the miracles performed in the Church in the subsequent centuries"... you believe they were all for real?
The reply: [i]There will al ...[text shortened]... auds or figments of people's imaginations? Or does it not matter whether miracles are real or bogus?
In my opinion of course.
@divegeester saidI suppose the question is does it matter if they were real or not real? And is there an official list of "real" miracles or does it not matter if they were real or not?
I have seen two occurrences which I believe were miracles; one probably, the other definitely.
In my opinion of course.
@yo-its-me saidIs there an official list of "real" miracles that have happened over the centuries since Jesus's death?
It matters to me
Take Benny Hinn for example.
For a Christian who believes in miracles, which of the following is true?
[1] It is wrong to believe that any of his supposed miracles are real.
[2] It is wrong to believe that none of his supposed miracles are real.
[3] It is right to believe that some of his supposed miracles are real.
[4] It doesn't matter whether or not Benny Hinn's supposed miracles are real.
@fmf saidThat really should not be an issue for a Christian. Why bother with these people. If the miracles are fake then they are liars and shysters. If real, then lucky for those who benefited. Personally I have never seen these miracles in real life, neither do I care to.
Take Benny Hinn for example.
For a Christian who believes in miracles, which of the following is true?
[1] It is wrong to believe that any of his supposed miracles are real.
[2] It is wrong to believe that none of his supposed miracles are real.
[3] It is right to believe that some of his supposed miracles are real.
@yo-its-me saidSo, although it matters to you if miracles are real or not, it doesn’t matter to you if others don't think the miracles you believe in are real?
If there was, I would question it's authenticity tbh
@rajk999 saidI suppose it comes down to the old chestnut you are invariably roasting here: church doctrine v following Christ.
That really should not be an issue for a Christian. Why bother with these people. If the miracles are fake then they are liars and shysters. If real, then lucky for those who benefited. Personally I have never seen these miracles in real life, neither do I care to.
If someone believes that it is important to talk in terms of "the miracles peformed in the Church in the subsequent centuries [after Christ]" and yet some unknown number of them are frauds or the product of hysteria, what does that mean for the integrity of one's faith and religious practices?
I am not asking you this, of course.
@yo-its-me saidTo be clear, I wasn't talking about "things" generally or even faith generally. I was talking very specifically about miracles.
Do I care if other people believe the same things I believe?No, I don't care.
@fmf saidIt would require a personal miracle or encounter to evidence to me the existence of the divine.
Jesus's purported miracles are cited as evidence of his divinity. Are miracles that only "exist" in the personal reality of an individual also evidence of divine power and actions?
I am not holding my breath.
@fmf saidOf course there will be fraudulent claims of miracles because it empowers people if it is believed that they were conduits of miracles, or that their locale is a host to miraculous events.
This was posted by a Christian on another thread:
The atheist will never want to hear at all about the miracles peformed in the Church in the subsequent centuries [after Christ] - don't even go there...
To which I responded: "All the miracles performed in the Church in the subsequent centuries"... you believe they were all for real?
The reply: [i]There will al ...[text shortened]... auds or figments of people's imaginations? Or does it not matter whether miracles are real or bogus?
But the fact that there are fake Gucci bags does not mean that there are no real Gucci bags.