Spirituality
16 Nov 16
Originally posted by FMFIf you cannot decide whether something is credible or not, how do you know that your 'realization' is truly credible? Do you just 'realize' that as well?
They would have to be more convincing and more credible. I would "know" it if it happened. The stuff you propagate, for example, is neither convincing nor credible. If I thought it was, I would tell you. I suppose I will perhaps just be convinced by something someday (although I don't expect or anticipate it) and the credibility of it will be a realization (resu ...[text shortened]... several times. Relatively recently. You keep asking the same thing over and over and over again.
16 Nov 16
Originally posted by divegeester...https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell
For example telling someone "God loves them so much that he became human and came to earth and paid a terrible price for their sin so that they can be with him for eternity" is, one the face of it fairly unbelievable to the human mind. But is nevertheless an appealing account of love, family, self-sacrifice, atonement, redemption and salvation.
Howev ...[text shortened]... rd, apocalyptically hateful and a platform for the potential believer to reject the initial premise.
Both ideas come from the same source. So since the second is nonsense, what does that make the first.
16 Nov 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYou've asked about this thing before and I have answered it and duscussed it. Perhaps you don't remember. Or perhaps you are pretending not to remember.
If you cannot decide whether something is credible or not, how do you know that your 'realization' is truly credible? Do you just 'realize' that as well?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkA major barrier is not so much past experience but anticipation of a possible future experience. That is the resentment that God will have the final say and that as the Judge He has the power to enforce His authority over that final say.
I don't think truth by nature is always necessarily believable.That said, I think people build mental barriers to reject certain beliefs based on past experiences. For example, if you had a bad experience with someone from a specific religious group, you may reject that religion based on the experience you had with said person and not necessarily because that religion does not make sense to you.
I am convinced that resentment of God's final authority fuels some unwillingness to believe. To fight this future inescapable final authority is more important to some sinners.
Notice how sinners will gravitate inevitably to expressing hatred for the revelation of eternal punishment. Nothing else of God's love, mercy, longsuffering, patience or salvation can be seen. These divine attributes are discarded. Only final judgment for rejectiing God is seen and hated. Some only see the inescapable event of final judgment for unrepentance.
I think if you look beyond some of the existential fog, a refusal to admit final consequences for unbelief are in God's hands and not the sinner's, is a barrier to belief.
Originally posted by sonshipThis is a load of presumptuous ~ and disingenuous ~ nonsense, sonship, which seeks to evade discussion of the question rather than engage it. Please try to remember that you are talking about people who don't believe the stuff you believe, and not about people who do believe it but just don't want to admit it, or who believe it but simply don't like it, or some other daft and clumsy psycholigically bogus rhetorical trick you are seeking to filter this question through.
A major barrier is not so much past experience but anticipation of a possible future experience. That is the resentment that God will have the final say and that as the Judge He has the power to enforce His authority over that final say.
I am convinced that resentment of God's final authority fuels some unwillingness to believe. To fight this future ...[text shortened]... final consequences for unbelief are in God's hands and not the sinner's, is a barrier to belief.
16 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonshipPeople who don't believe in your ideology of "eternal punishment" simply do not believe in "eternal punishment". Do you really not get that? Do actually think they somehow DO believe it but just say that they don't?
Notice how sinners will gravitate inevitably to expressing hatred for the revelation of eternal punishment.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkSo out of all the hundreds or thousands of religions out there, ALL of those are valueless, cruel deceptions designed by the devil to lure unsuspecting victims into its web. And only the bible tells the absolute truth. Even though a god, whom you ascribe as all knowing, omnipotent, and so forth, would not need such things as tests, like telling Adam and Eve not to eat that deadly apple, or telling Abe to kill his son, as a test to his loyalty since this all knowing god would have known before it created the universe exactly what any given human would do when presented with some kind of godly test but that didn't stop the writers of the bible from this glaring plot failure, they just keep writing bullshyte tales in order to control their population who got very well programmed indeed.
I believe the Bible is divinely inspired, can't see how any other religious book is even comparable.
Why do you believe what you do, to be the truth?
Or this all knowing and loving god killing all the landform life on Earth to spite some bad humans. Come on, how can you read this utter bullshyte and still believe it, here in the 21st century with 300 years of solid science behind us telling us quite firmly Earth is not 6000 odd years old but closer to 6 BILLION years, well 4.5 but who'se counting? Funny how an obscure tribe in a desert would have been given the truth of god but you have to know at the same time there were already thousands of societies already extant who for some unknown reason, this alleged god of yours decided NOT to tell this universal truth.
So we have to assume, seeing this allmighty god, this loving gracious god WANTED it that way where only some obscure desert tribe got the good word while the rest of the entire planet is doomed to hell and damnation.
Why don't you think about it with your OWN mind, get over the programming and life a real life that doesn't require constant referal to a non existant bible god.
You think miracles occur but some kid gets well and is pronounced a miracle cure but 300 MILLION dead from ONE disease, TB, and most of them god fearing christians, THEY ALL DIED. Yet here is this one kid who got well, and now your god saved that one kid but turned its rhetorical back on one third of a BILLION people with a dread disease.
REALLY loving god you have there.
16 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonhouseIf the Bible is not true, what do you view to be the truth?
So out of all the hundreds or thousands of religions out there, ALL of those are valueless, cruel deceptions designed by the devil to lure unsuspecting victims into its web. And only the bible tells the absolute truth. Even though a god, whom you ascribe as all knowing, omnipotent, and so forth, would not need such things as tests, like telling Adam and Eve ...[text shortened]... ack on one third of a BILLION people with a dread disease.
REALLY loving god you have there.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
16 Nov 16
Originally posted by FMFI don't share your belief that the Bible's truth is an "ideology" in regard to either eternal salvation or eternal judgment.
People who don't believe in your ideology of "eternal punishment" simply do not believe in "eternal punishment". Do you really not get that? Do actually think they somehow DO believe it but just say that they don't?
Understand that I don't have this belief of yours in "my ideology" here.
16 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonship"I am convinced that resentment of God's final authority fuels some unwillingness to believe."
A major barrier is not so much past experience but anticipation of a possible future experience. That is the resentment that God will have the final say and that as the Judge He has the power to enforce His authority over that final say.
I am convinced that resentment of God's final authority fuels some unwillingness to believe. To fight this future ...[text shortened]... final consequences for unbelief are in God's hands and not the sinner's, is a barrier to belief.
If God does not exist, why would one resent a final authority that equally does not exist.
Once again you are merely revealing the deep rooted misunderstanding you have of an atheistic mind set.
Just to clarify 2 misunderstandings you have repeatedly made in these forums, one about Hinduism and one about atheism:
1. Hindus do not believe that each reincarnation creates a separate soul. They believe it is the same soul that is reincarnated, even if there is no memory of the previous lives lived. No matter how many times you post otherwise, this continues to remain the case.
2. Atheists 'do not' believe God exists. They do not secretly believe in Him and then reject him or turn away from him out of resentment. Atheists simply do not believe he is there. No matter how many times you post otherwise, this continues to remain the case.
16 Nov 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeDo you think perhaps his rejection of these obvious truths, is because he once had some bad experiences with some atheists? Or is it his anticipation of a possible future experience should he choose to accept the truth?
No matter how many times you post otherwise, this continues to remain the case.
16 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonshipThe ideas and claims you propagate are merely an "ideology" ~ about things like morality, justice, punishment, and the abjectly misanthropic outlook regarding your fellow humans you promote ~ to people who don't have the same belief in supernatural things that you have. Surely you must realize that?
I don't share your belief that the Bible's truth is an "ideology" in regard to either eternal salvation or eternal judgment.
Understand that I don't have this belief of yours in "my ideology" here.
16 Nov 16
Originally posted by divegeesterTruth is stranger than fiction.
Of course truth isn't always believable, but this has nothing to do with the nature of the truth and more to do with nature of the recipient and the way the particular truth is packaged and presented.
For example telling someone "God loves them so much that he became human and came to earth and paid a terrible price for their sin so that they can be ...[text shortened]... apocalyptically hateful and a platform for the potential believer to reject the initial premise.
For example, if you had told me 10 years ago that Trump would be President, Bruce Jenner was really a woman, and the Cubs would win a world series, would any of us believed it?