Originally posted by robbie carrobieThis would've been a pretty good answer on the "Passion of the Christ" thread to my questions there.
AS THE Nazi regime collapsed at the end of World War II, an order was given to eliminate thousands who remained in concentration camps. The inmates of the Sachsenhausen camp were to be evacuated to seaports where they would be loaded on ships and sunk at sea. This was part of a strategy later known as the death marches.
Thirty-three thousand of th ...[text shortened]... nother helped them survive the ordeal.—2 Cor. 4:7.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013604
I don't see why you bring this up here?
edit: apparently this is a "good reinforcement of the matter". you guys are weird. You guys make little sense
26 Apr 17
Originally posted by karoly aczelrobbie has over the years from time to time, on this forum, sought to associate himself personally and directly with the victims of the Holocaust in the 1940s because, in C21st Glasgow, he goes door to door handing out free magazines.
This would've been a pretty good answer on the "Passion of the Christ" thread to my questions there.
I don't see why you bring this up here?
edit: apparently this is a "good reinforcement of the matter". you guys are weird. You guys make little sense
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26 Apr 17
It is good for a Christian to know that he or she is a member of a organic corporate entity the New Testament calls the Body.
Paul uses the term "the Body" The Apostle John quoted Jesus in His discourse about the True Vine and its branches in John 15.. The concepts are related.
Whether we consider Christians as members of a Body or branches abiding together in a Vine the truth is the same. No Christian can consider himself a completely isolated person. It is good from the onset to pray for one to take his or her place in that corporate organism of the Body of Christ.
All the members are related to one another. And the independent life is not as prevailing as the life joined to others in that organic unity. This is not conformity. This is partaking of the rich supply of grace which flows through the organic oneness of the corporate Christ.
The members from the onset should realize that the greatest blessing does not lie in isolation and independence but as part of the organic unity.
"For the body is not one member but many.
If the foot should say, Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body, it is not that because of this it is not of the body.
And if the ear should say, Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body, it is not that because of this it is not of the body." (1 Cor. 12:14-16)
Much precious time can be saved by learning this early. "I cannot either despise myself or despise other Christians. I am interdependent and among many others. I need their function no matter what I think. And they in turn need mine. We are a Body for Christ to dwell within in a corporate manner."
Mutual relatedness should be sought out in Christ.
The main thing is not so much numerical but organic Body relatedness.
I cannot be independent though I am naturally so.
Other members cannot be looked down upon.
It is because Christ is in them and Christ is in me. And we should be rooted and grounded in love, apprehending with all the saints the riches of Christ's life in us.
26 Apr 17
Originally posted by sonshipI enjoyed Christian solidarity and fellowship a lot when I was a Christian. It was good. It was positive. It's just obvious. It scarcely needs explaining. Why do you feel the need to talk about it so much? Isn't the key to a Christian life what you then actually DO in the context of Christian fellowship? You hardly ever talk about that.
It is good for a Christian to know that he or she is a member of a organic corporate entity the New Testament calls the Body.
Paul uses the term [b]"the Body" The Apostle John quoted Jesus in His discourse about the True Vine and its branches in John 15.. The concepts are related.
Whether we consider Christians as members of ...[text shortened]... rooted and grounded in love, apprehending with all the saints the riches of Christ's life in us.[/b]
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27 Apr 17
Originally posted by FMFI enjoyed Christian solidarity and fellowship a lot when I was a Christian.
. Why do you feel the need to talk about it so much? Isn't the key to a Christian life what you then actually DO in the context of Christian fellowship? You hardly ever talk about that.
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Christian oneness has its happy byproducts for believers. But more importantly oneness meets the need that God has to fulfill His eternal purpose. If I only consider oneness in Christ to be for the purpose of making me happy, sooner or latter I may decide that I am no longer happy. Perhaps an offense will seem too intolerable to overlook.
But if I grasp that my personal happiness is not the goal but God's "habitation of God in spirit" the church, is the goal, I will be much stronger. My happiness is really good. But something transcends that - God's eternal purpose to dispense Himself into a corporate entity.
This vision is most according to the truth. And when I see it I am empowered to go through, pass through, situations and tensions between me and fellow members of the Body of Christ. God honors this kind of consecration for you seek first His kingdom and His eternal purpose to build Christians up into a corporate vessel to contain and be saturated with Christ.
It was good. It was positive. It's just obvious. It scarcely needs explaining.
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In my case it is also tested. It is put through the test. And the result of remaining abiding in the Lord Jesus is that there is an increase of Christ in my life. An increase of Christ translates into more infusion of Christ into the Body of Christ.
The very challenges are a catalyst for me to sink deeper into Christ. And that brings in more transformation. And that brings in more victory and more so more building up of myself with the other brothers and sisters.
But this I did not get really until I saw the local church. When I left the denomination out of seeing something more profound then this cycle in the local church kept me with the Body in real experience. The testing is not over. But the program, the scheme of God, I see.
the church is only built with the Christ that God pours into us, constitutes into us, builds into us, infuses into us. "I" has to go. And "Christ lives in me" has to increase. And God's eternal purpose is underway.
Seeing this over the five continents will bring the Lord Jesus Christ back to this earth physically.
I cannot address the rest of your questions right now. I must get some kids to the school bus.
Originally posted by sonshipThe personal happiness is a natural bi-product that you do not need to go on and on and on about. The goal ~ surely ~ is to live a good Christian life, obey the commandments, do good works [as opposed to waffling on about stuff like "God's eternal purpose to dispense Himself into a corporate entity"] and in so doing demonstrate your Christian spirit through your actions, efforts, values. behaviour, and your determination to proactively improve the human environment around you through actual deeds, right? That's what being a Christian is about, yes? Not just think, talk, think, talk, think, talk. Without good works, your faith is dead. Isn't that so?
But if I grasp that my personal happiness is not the goal but God's "habitation of God in spirit" the church, is the goal, I will be much stronger. My happiness is really good. But something transcends that - God's eternal purpose to dispense Himself into a corporate entity.
27 Apr 17
Originally posted by sonshipBeing a Christian is surely about how you live your life and what you do ~ the tangible consequences of being a Christian ~ surely? It can't just be about thinking stuff ~ like whether or not you are sinking deep enough into Christ ~ can it?
In my case it is also tested. It is put through the test. And the result of remaining abiding in the Lord Jesus is that there is an increase of Christ in my life. An increase of Christ translates into more infusion of Christ into the Body of Christ. The very challenges are a catalyst for me to sink deeper into Christ. And that brings in more transformation. ...[text shortened]... ings in more victory and more so more building up of myself with the other brothers and sisters.
27 Apr 17
Originally posted by FMFHe preaches dead faith .. correct.
The personal happiness is a natural bi-product that you do not need to go on and on and on about. The goal ~ surely ~ is to live a good Christian life, obey the commandments, do good works [as opposed to waffling on about stuff like "God's eternal purpose to dispense Himself into a corporate entity"] and in so doing demonstrate your Christian spirit through your ...[text shortened]... st think, talk, think, talk, think, talk. Without good works, your faith is dead. Isn't that so?
He discourages Christians from being a Light of the world and salt of the earth
But these are Christians who are of like mind.
The chosen and elect of God will pay him no mind.
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27 Apr 17
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Before I continue my reply to FMF, let me say that there is a time for everything.
There is a time to be strict with yourself and cut yourself no slack.
But there is also a time to stop being so hard on yourself.
Lots of Christians are self condemned because they perceive that they are not the spiritual giants they imagined they would be when they became Christians. With the constant beating up of Pop Culture and Atheism the sense of self contempt can increase.
There is a time for cutting yourself no slack and getting down to business. And there is a time to realize self condemnation is of no help. You take the blood of Jesus and you evaluate where you might be going wrong. No, you find out from the Lord Jesus where you might be going wrong.
I have found by experience much weakness, failure, defeat comes because I neglect the Body life nature of the new life that God has put into me. This thread gives some attention to the problem of isolation and independence from flow of the rich supply of spiritual power in the corporate expression of the body of Christ.
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27 Apr 17
Originally posted by FMF
I enjoyed Christian solidarity and fellowship a lot when I was a Christian. It was good. It was positive. It's just obvious. It scarcely needs explaining. Why do you feel the need to talk about it so much? Isn't the key to a Christian life what you then actually DO in the context of Christian fellowship? You hardly ever talk about that.
Why do you feel the need to talk about it so much? Isn't the key to a Christian life what you then actually DO in the context of Christian fellowship? You hardly ever talk about that.
The second part of the question here.
First, it is true that I may not talk so much about the WHAT of the Christian doing. What we believers need to do in the specifics. That is true that I speak to some of this less.
I emphasize the SOURCE of the doing. It is the SOURCE of Christian doing and Christian work which has caused much problem.
Ironically often the same people objecting about not being given specifics on the WHAT that the Christian needs to do, ridicule things done in the name of religion under the banner of Christ which are problematic.
Jesus said that without abiding in Him we can do nothing. Actually, we can do a lot of things without abiding in Him. But the value of it in terms of what God is doing may be nothing. Worse then being nothing, it may be counterproductive.
The way of the truth is reviled often because of the things done out from the wrong source.
"And many will follow their licentiousness, because of whom the way of the truth will be reviled." (2 Pet. 2:2)
The way of the truth is brought into disrepute and reviled because much religious activity is just out from a source others than Christ living within. Many posters here are experts at constantly pointing out the failures of Christiandom. The Gospel is reviled less on doctrinal grounds sometimes than on behavioral grounds.
So the source of Christ abiding within is emphasized more so by me. Where we need to be is where the Apostle Paul pioneered -
" I am crucified with Christ ..."
He means not just the bad and sinful "I" is crucified with Christ. But also the do good, get busy "I" is crucified with Christ. It is easier to say - The bad, dirty, lustful "I" needs to go. God cannot use it to build His church. It is not as easy to recognize - The good "I", the cultured "I", the gentleman or lady "I", the do good-er "I" that knows what everybody needs needs also to be crucified with Christ.
Many tend to think God wants our goodness. God doesn't want our goodness. God wants Christ to live in us.
So we go on -
"I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me;
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20)
I speak more about the source of the Christian life - the living and available Christ Who comes to blend and live in a Christian's innermost spiritual being. If the source is solidly established the outflow will be proper. And though some people will still object perhaps, Christ is flowing out in the actions in quite a spontaneous way to the glory of God.
27 Apr 17
Originally posted by sonshipSo? No "outflow" ~ by which I assume you mean "works" ~ no "salvation"?
I speak more about the source of the Christian life - the living and available Christ Who comes to blend and live in a Christian's innermost spiritual being. If the source is solidly established the outflow will be proper.
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27 Apr 17
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Originally posted by FMFEvery individual post of mine does not exhaustively cover ALL aspects of the Christian life. One day maybe I will devote a thread to the book of James.
Does James 2:14-26 more or less mean "...don't be cutting yourself any slack on works, faith without getting down to business is dead"?
What I focus on in this thread does not mean James is not significant or meaningful. Actually the point I think you wish to make does not have to wait until the book of James. Elsewhere, even in the first book of the NT - Matthew, and certainly the other epistles, works issuing out of union with Christ are taught about.