If you could save billions from eternal torture…

@rajk999 said
You need some professional psychiatric counselling. We are talking about a particular topic and then you branch off to another matter. This is your mo all the time when your back is against the wall and your church doctrine is shown t be garbage.

Do you remember what we were talking about?

Hint - Its about the parable of the faithful and wise steward .

I'm not the one suggesting God gives one set of rules for people who believe in Him and another for everyone else, making all Christians susceptible to Hell and those who do not believe in Jesus off the hook. The same standard is applied to all, except in your doctrine.

@kellyjay said
I'm not the one suggesting God gives one set of rules for people who believe in Him and another for everyone else, making all Christians susceptible to Hell and those who do not believe in Jesus off the hook. The same standard is applied to all, except in your doctrine.

Your church doctrine says
- all the people from Adam to Christ [4000 yrs] are doomed to hell beause they dont know Christ
- all the people from Christ until the end of the world are doomed if they did not get to know about Christ
- all Christians regardless of how evil get eternal life.

That is your idea of one set of rules.

Jesus and all the Apostles says something else and you dont like it baeuase you want to believe you are in some kind of privileged position enabling you t escape the condemnation of sin. I can see you dont like what Jesus said

And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.(Luke 12:42-48 KJV)

Several categories of people here
1. Those who knew the will of God and did it - A blessed Christian, the faithful and wise servant, who will rule with Christ
2. Those who knew the will of God and did evil .. an evil Christian who will be cut off and punished with the unbelievers
3. Those who knew Gods will and did nothing, a complacent Christian doing neither good nor evil - punished with many stripes
4. Those who did not know Gods will [non Christians] and sinned are punished with few stripes;

The reason for this is given clearly : For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required

What Jesus says sounds very fair. Your church doctrine is what is unfair and contrary to Christ.

@rajk999 said
Your church doctrine says
- all the people from Adam to Christ [4000 yrs] are doomed to hell beause they dont know Christ
- all the people from Christ until the end of the world are doomed if they did not get to know about Christ
- all Christians regardless of how evil get eternal life.

That is your idea of one set of rules.

Jesus and all the Apostles says somethin ...[text shortened]...

What Jesus says sounds very fair. Your church doctrine is what is unfair and contrary to Christ.

You are simply making that up, and you have no idea what my church doctrine is; you don't know what church I even go to, let alone its doctrine. So all of that isn't because you have some knowledge pulled from a document that declares what my church believes; therefore, it is all coming out of your head alone. Your complaint is all illusionary; you state it is so, therefore it is because you say so the proof and reality of it can only be found between your ears.

The grace of God covers all sins; Jesus came to save sinners, from the worst of them to the least sinful; all are sinners before God. Jesus made a statement, not my church, that only through Him can we come to the Father; Jesus said, not my church, that He is the Way, Truth, and Life, no one comes to God but through Him. You can disagree with that, but your disagreement will not be with my church, but Jesus Christ.

Any privileged position anyone can have has to come from God, for we are all sinners. Even what you preach, you allow sinners to come to God as is, unless you are now telling us those others are righteous enough on their own by good works. According to your doctrine, do good works do away with one's sins? It is simple if you think the grace of God through faith is different than your works doctrine that one allows a sinner to come to God while still sinning, how does your works doctrine differ from that?

We all sin, we are all sinners, you think there are those among us that don't sin, the only thing they do is good works?

@kellyjay said
You are simply making that up, and you have no idea what my church doctrine is; you don't know what church I even go to, let alone its doctrine. So all of that isn't because you have some knowledge pulled from a document that declares what my church believes; therefore, it is all coming out of your head alone. Your complaint is all illusionary; you state it is so, therefore ...[text shortened]... ll sinners, you think there are those among us that don't sin, the only thing they do is good works?

Well, I will stay with what Jesus said. You believe the church doctrine.

@rajk999 said
Well, I will stay with what Jesus said. You believe the church doctrine.

I wish you were staying with what Jesus and what the rest of the Bible says; it is the only place we should trust. I've not quoted church doctrine to you, only the Word, and you seem to think when scripture is quoted to you, that is church doctrine, I guess.

When you quote Jesus only on the day of judgment and apply it to this life in the here, and now, you immediately have started taking things out of context. The first thing is all of our deeds are now done on the day of judgment, all of our words have been spoken, the things we should have done and didn't it is complete; there is nothing but judgment taking place. So everyone standing before God that He is accepting has put their faith in Jesus; they have all done the good works He has given them to do.

There is no mention of those who didn't believe in Jesus, denied Jesus before God and man, hated their brothers, but they had good works. Those who played church, said and did things but didn't know Him, didn't come to Him, kept their hearts far from Him; they too are there and are being cast out into the outer darkness. You are looking at the fruit of Jesus Christ in the lives of those who came to Him for redemption and walked out their faith doing the good works He gave and suggesting these are those without Jesus as Lord are the ones being accepted by God, that is simply not true.

@kellyjay said
I wish you were staying with what Jesus and what the rest of the Bible says; it is the only place we should trust. I've not quoted church doctrine to you, only the Word, and you seem to think when scripture is quoted to you, that is church doctrine, I guess.

When you quote Jesus only on the day of judgment and apply it to this life in the here, and now, you immediately ha ...[text shortened]... g these are those without Jesus as Lord are the ones being accepted by God, that is simply not true.

I got it... I dont need your wishes .. thanks...

@rajk999 said
I got it... I dont need your wishes .. thanks...

I noticed you didn't address the question that sinners with good works are accepted, and those that believe who are also sinners who believe can be rejected with your doctrine. What makes someone who denies Jesus with good works acceptable to God and one that believes with good works can be subject to hell? If they are both sinners, why are there two different standards? Why is accepting the work Jesus did for us a means to justify us simply to throw us into Hell if we don't measure up?

@kellyjay said
I noticed you didn't address the question that sinners with good works are accepted, and those that believe who are also sinners who believe can be rejected with your doctrine. What makes someone who denies Jesus with good works acceptable to God and one that believes with good works can be subject to hell? If they are both sinners, why are there two different standards? Why ...[text shortened]... the work Jesus did for us a means to justify us simply to throw us into Hell if we don't measure up?

I said no such thing. But the answer to your question is in the parable by Jesus which i quoted in Luke 12:42-48.

@rajk999 said
I said no such thing. But the answer to your question is in the parable by Jesus which i quoted in Luke 12:42-48.

Luke 12
41 Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” 42 And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 45 But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. 48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

Where does it say that those that do not profess Jesus Christ as Lord can be accepted, and those that do will be cast out if they don't do faith and works right? These are all servants of one lord, and they are all being held accountable to their one lord; those that don't belong to that lord are not mentioned at all; where do you see them?

@kellyjay said
Luke 12
41 Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” 42 And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his p ...[text shortened]... heir one lord; those that don't belong to that lord are not mentioned at all; where do you see them?

Are you saying that there is another Lord somewhere that will judge people when he returns ? Is that what your church preaches? There is one judge, one Lord in the end who will judge ALL PEOPLE and ALL PEOPLE are justified by the death of Christ.

Your problem is that you have boasted for decades about being a Christian and of your privileged status and told others here that their fate is eternal torment, when the truth according to Christ is that Christians face a worse fate than unbelievers because they have been given much, and much is required of them. Failure is damnation for them... more so than the unbeliever who does not know what God expects from them. Read that parable over and over and lt it sink in, because those are words of Jesus pertaining to judgment day.

I cannot help you any further. You seem to have some reading comprehension difficulties and also your ability to understand the bible is severely compromised by the indoctrination from your church. Simple passages from Christ appear to be beyond you. So ... so long.

@rajk999 said
Are you saying that there is another Lord somewhere that will judge people when he returns ? Is that what your church preaches? There is one judge, one Lord in the end who will judge ALL PEOPLE and ALL PEOPLE are justified by the death of Christ.

Your problem is that you have boasted for decades about being a Christian and of your privileged status and told others her ...[text shortened]... doctrination from your church. Simple passages from Christ appear to be beyond you. So ... so long.

Jesus in that parable has that one lord judging his servants, no one else's servants, so, not another lord's servants, and there is no mention of anyone who serves no one. So you are adding into the Word something that isn't there to produce something that isn't said.

@kellyjay said
Jesus in that parable has that one lord judging his servants, no one else's servants, so, not another lord's servants, and there is no mention of anyone who serves no one. So you are adding into the Word something that isn't there to produce something that isn't said.

I sympathize. I can well understand why that parable is causing you some grief.

If you need a separate bible passage that tells you Jesus is Lord of all, or that all people will anwser to Jesus, or that Jesus is judge of all, I suggest you go ask your pastor. And while you there show him that Luke parable and aske him what he thinks of it.

@rajk999 said
I sympathize. I can well understand why that parable is causing you some grief.

If you need a separate bible passage that tells you Jesus is Lord of all, or that all people will anwser to Jesus, or that Jesus is judge of all, I suggest you go ask your pastor. And while you there show him that Luke parable and aske him what he thinks of it.

The issue isn't that Jesus is Lord over all; it's taking something He was talking about and adding to it something that isn't there. When the scriptures say those who do not believe in the Lord are condemned already because they have not believed in the Lord, that is an all-encompassing passage of scripture.

You can read into that passage everyone if you like but what the Lord accepts are only those that have accepted Him, those that deny Him, those that have kept their hearts far from Him, those that choose sin over Him will not be found doing what the Lord requires, those without the Spirit of God in them don't belong to Him.

Without faith, it is impossible to please God, those without it are condemned already, and your passage doesn't give them an out. So faith without works is dead, and works without faith is impossible to please God. Those that are not pleasing the Lord when He returns will be cast out.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.