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Originally posted by FMFTis a pity that the OP's request not to make it about blood didn't get honored. It might have been interesting.
The topic here is the lack of a Biblical basis for banning life saving blood transfusions ~ a perfect Christian spiritual metaphor, when you think about it ~ and not ancient Hebrew dietary customs or animal sacrifices or pagan blood rituals.
"I ask that you put the blood issue aside and refrain from bashing the organization as a whole and simply focus on the matter of disfellowship and whether or not it is physically necessary or spiritually necessary and whether or not it has worked or can work or if it can only have adverse effects."
16 Dec 14
Originally posted by roigamI think you calling another forum member who has given no offence nor reason to doubt his word, an attention seeking liar in a public forum whilst lacking the common decency to address him personally is a further reflection of your religion's failings.
I have been one of Jehovah's Witnesses for over 43 years and have never seen or heard of anyone being disfellowshipped for taking blood, even when the courts have forced it on them. Have you considered that BR was not Disfellowshipped for that reason but for another that we don't know about?
As humans we have a tendency to tell the story that makes us look best or gets the most sympathy.
jw.org
16 Dec 14
Originally posted by roigamIs the taking of blood in a transfusion a matter of personal conscience or is it as Galveston says forbidden as a command of God?
Along this line, if you believe in the Bible, our Creator, our Heavenly father, by name Jehovah God, gave His children, Adam and Eve, one house rule.
Many parents alive today understand and use the idea of a "house rule" to elicit proper behavior from their offspring.
Adam and Eve disobeyed by eating from the "tree of knowledge of good an bad". They broke t ...[text shortened]... .
He is our modern day city of refuge.
So, no one needs to be disfellowshipped on this basis.
Originally posted by roigamPerhaps your prayers would be better served if they were directed towards the needs of beauroberts who is a father and fellow Jehovah's Witness who is suffering from cancer and trying to deal with being excommunicated from your horrible religion at a time when he needs you most.
I can only pray that Jehovah will open the eyes of your heart.
He is probably struggling to cope with your religious leaders attempting to drive a wedge between him and his wife by encouraging her not to have anything to do with him. That you think these practices is doing God's will is a direct reflection on you personally as a human being.
The organisation you belong to is a dangerous pernicious religious cult that you would do anything to defend, including calling someone you have never met, a liar in this forum.
16 Dec 14
Originally posted by JS357With respect, there is more at stake in this thread than your personal academic interest in the practice of excommunication. You keep expressing your dissatisfaction with the threads development; why don't you start your own thread on a specific topic you enjoy.
Tis a pity that the OP's request not to make it about blood didn't get honored. It might have been interesting.
"I ask that you put the blood issue aside and refrain from bashing the organization as a whole and simply focus on the matter of disfellowship and whether or not it is physically necessary or spiritually necessary and whether or not it has worked or can work or if it can only have adverse effects."
🙂
Originally posted by JS357Why don't you talk to people about that instead of talking to me? 😉
Tis a pity that the OP's request not to make it about blood didn't get honored. It might have been interesting.
"I ask that you put the blood issue aside and refrain from bashing the organization as a whole and simply focus on the matter of disfellowship and whether or not it is physically necessary or spiritually necessary and whether or not it has worked or can work or if it can only have adverse effects."
Both galveston75 and roigam are advocates of ostracising dissenters/non-conformists, but you have scarcely engaged them.
I myself have tried to engage galveston75 about 'free moral agents' being able 'speaking truth to power' (elders) and the corporation absorbing change and different interpretations ~ as opposed to using disfellowship.
Originally posted by beaurobertsRemoving my wife and children from me would probably be the most ghastly kind of psychological abuse that one could commit against me, aside from murdering them. When they tried to turn her against you ~ and take away your children too ~ what Biblical justification did they cite?
They counciled my wife and instructed her to not socialize with me and if need be a "safe" place would be provided for her and the children. My wife refused to accept their council and was also disfellowshipped.
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Originally posted by FMFI thought it might motivate some people to go in the direction of the OP.
Why don't you talk to people about that instead of talking to me? 😉
Both galveston75 and roigam are advocates of ostracising dissenters/non-conformists, but you have scarcely engaged them.
I myself have tried to engage galveston75 about 'free moral agents' being able 'speaking truth to power' (elders) and the corporation absorbing change and different interpretations ~ as opposed to using disfellowship.
Clearly not only wrong, but unwelcome.
Edit: Clearly those two believe the overarching benefit to shunning is that it keeps to God's commands.
Originally posted by roigamI agree totally. I to have never heard on anyone being disfellowshipped for a transfusion either.
Along this line, if you believe in the Bible, our Creator, our Heavenly father, by name Jehovah God, gave His children, Adam and Eve, one house rule.
Many parents alive today understand and use the idea of a "house rule" to elicit proper behavior from their offspring.
Adam and Eve disobeyed by eating from the "tree of knowledge of good an bad". They broke t ...[text shortened]... .
He is our modern day city of refuge.
So, no one needs to be disfellowshipped on this basis.
My father was an elder for decades and it never happened while he was one and as you said there is usually more to it that the congregation usually never knows.
16 Dec 14
So going back to the original question about being disfellowshipped and basically if it is a thing to do no matter what the reason and should it be done...yes it is a bible based action that has to be done to protect the congregation from ones who in the view of the elders and thru serious prayer to Jehovah has to be put into place. Most countries have simular laws for ones who are a danger to their societies and that is to restrict them from a normal interaction with others.
No elder ever wants to disfellowship anyone and usually there are many meetings involved to try and help the person involved to take loving correction from the BIBLE.
If that person does not accept the bibles council and has shown an attitude that is not good for the congregation, one could be disfellowshipped.
This is all done with the hope that after that person has some time pass and hopefully will miss being a part of the congregation and the love that is shown by all their brothers, they will have a change of heart by praying to Jehovah during that time for guidance to have a clearer understanding of Jehovahs commands which are only there for our protection.
Even if we they never understand a law such as "abstaining from blood" would include taking a blood transfusion, this is where "FAITH" in Jehovah has to come in and take hold of of our heart and to realise he knows far more then we do on everything.
16 Dec 14
Originally posted by FMFSo you think the JW's just made this rule up? Really? Why would we do such a thing if there were not a biblical basis behind it? What purpose in the world would a rule like this be good for?
The only "reasoning" I can see is a corporation trying to set itself apart and create some "otherness" by conjuring up arbitrary 'unique selling points'.
Think on your answer for awhile...I want it to really make sence.
16 Dec 14
Originally posted by roigamI have heard a lot of discussion of the Bible verses in question. I've had several JW friends in three different countries. There are also two regular JW posters here on this forum who have posted 54,000 times between them in conversations that have generated numerous links to analysis, information and testimony.
So basically, you don't know what you are talking about.
16 Dec 14
Originally posted by galveston75For the reasons I have stated on this thread. And we have discussed this issue several times before. Have you forgotten?
So you think the JW's just made this rule up? Really? Why would we do such a thing if there were not a biblical basis behind it? What purpose in the world would a rule like this be good for?