22 Nov 15
Originally posted by sonshipI don't understand Godman. Why don't you use God/man?
[b]
You also believe you are going to heaven when the Bible speaks clearly of a resurrection to the Earth.
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I never write about "going to heaven" in that sense.
You are not now talking to me. You are now talking as you have been trained. You have to examine what I ...[text shortened]... ead on "Beyond OSAS" further discussion of living the Godman life that we may be deified.[/b]
22 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIn Matthew 5:20 through 7:6, Jesus warns his disciples against following the traditions and practices of the Pharisees, who judged others as if they themselves were beyond judgment. What's more, they judged people by the letter, not the spirit, of the law.
You still don't get it, you are not supposed to be looking at other people, you are supposed to be looking at yourself, wow how to thoroughly misapply a scripture twice by R J Hindu.
Jesus was not looking at himself, but others like the Pharisees as an example to his disciples as how not to judge. In Matthew 23 Jesus slams the Pharisees, so he certainly did not mean never to judge.
I don't have a beam in my eye like you, so I am not prohibited from judging you as Jesus judged the Pharisees. I am a Christian and a member of the body of Christ and have the authority to judge you. You have no authority to judge because of that log in your eye. 😏
22 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBad Translations of the Jehovah's Witness Bible, the New World Translation (NWT).
and yet when independently analyzed it came out as 'the most accurate translation' and 'a remarkably good translation'. The King James version didn't do too badly but it simply wasn't up to par probably due to the fact that the translators had fewer resources at their disposal. We have already established that you have no idea what makes a good tra ...[text shortened]... qualified to proffer any kind of credible opinion, but it sure don't stop you Foghorn Leghorn.😵
1. Gen. 1:1-2--"In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters," (New World Translation, emphasis added).
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive--the third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of " . . . the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters" to say " . . . and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."
2. Zech. 12:10--In this verse God is speaking and says, "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son," (Zech. 12:10, NASB).
The Jehovah's Witnesses change the word "me" to "the one" so that it says in their Bible, " . . . they will look upon the one whom they have pierced . . . "
Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God in flesh, then Zech. 12:10 would present obvious problems--so they changed it.
3. John 1:1--They mistranslate the verse as "a god."
Again, it is because they deny who Jesus is and must change the Bible to make it agree with their theology. The Jehovah's Witness version is this:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."
4. Col. 1:15-17--The word "other" is inserted 4 times. It is not in the original Greek--nor is it implied.
This is a section where Jesus is described as being the creator of all things. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization believes that Jesus is created, they have inserted the word "other" to show that Jesus was before all "other" things and implying that He is created.
There are two Greek words for "other": heteros and allos. The first means another of a different kind, and the second means another of the same kind. Neither is used at all in this section of Scripture. The Jehovah's Witness have changed the Bible to make it fit their aberrant theology.
5. Heb. 1:6--In this verse they translate the Greek word for worship, proskuneo, as "obeisance." Obeisance is a word that means to honor, show respect--even bow down before someone.
Since Jesus, to them, is created, then He cannot be worshiped. They have also done this in other verses concerning Jesus, i.e., Matt. 2:2, 11, 14:33, 28:9.
6. Heb. 1:8--This is a verse where God the Father is calling Jesus God: "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.'"
Since the Jehovah's Witnesses don't agree with that, they have changed the Bible, yet again, to agree with their theology. They have translated the verse as " . . . God is your throne . . . "
The problem with the Jehovah's Witness translation is that this verse is a quote from Psalm 45:6 which, from the Hebrew, can only be translated as " . . . Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom."
To justify their New Testament translation, they actually changed the OT verse to agree with their theology, too!
The NWT translation is not a good translation. It has changed the text to suit its own theological bias in many places.
https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/bad-translations-jehovahs-witness-bible-new-world-translation
HalleluYaH !!!
Praise the LORD!
Holy! Holy! Holy!
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In correcting a heretical teaching it is important that you do not introduce another. One has to be careful.
This is a section where Jesus is described as being the creator of all things. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization believes that Jesus is created, they have inserted the word "other" to show that Jesus was before all "other" things and implying that He is created.
The Bible says that Christ is God eternal and uncreated. But the Bible also says that the Word became flesh. God became a man.
Without possibility of controversy - MAN is a created entity in the universe (Gen. 1:26,27).
The uncreated and eternal Divine Being, the Logos Who was with God and was God, became flesh. This is incarnation. And because of this we should confess that Jesus Christ is both the uncreated God and the created man as one Person.
How then can Christ be God and Man ?
I don't know but He is. And to say Jesus was not created borders too close to denying the incarnation of God as the man Jesus.
Adolph Saphir, (1831 - 1891) a converted Jew whose preaching influenced Andrew Murray (The Spirit of Christ; With Christ in the School of Prayer) wrote of mingling of God and man in connection with Christ's incarnation:
The mystery of the incarnation has changed every thing upon earth, giving us more than an angel's nature, since God became man. He who is perfect God became perfect man, and now (mystery of mysteries) has taken our manhood into God, made it one with Himself, never to be parted from Him, not lost, as in the ocean of His divinity, but forever glorified, filled, in-oned with God. "Nearer and closer than any union, with a nearness inferior only to that oneness of the divine nature, is the oneness of our nature with that of God in the person of our ever-blessed Redeemer. Above angels and principalities and powers, is this our human nature glorified in God, with that glory which the Son had before the world was." And we, who believe, are one with Jesus. We cannot comprehend this mystery, and we do not measure it by our feelings; we hold it fast by faith, and if we were unbelieving or silent, the Lord's supper would declare it - Christ and the church are one; Christ by His death has become the life of His people.
Originally posted by sonshipSo it is that the NIV, NRSV, TEV and LB - the four Bibles that make no attempt to mark added words -- that actually add the most significant tendentious material. Yet in many public forums on Bible translation, the practice of these four translations is rarely if ever pointed to or criticized, while the New world translation is attacked for adding the innocuous, 'other' in a way that clearly indicates its character as an addition of the translators. Why is that so? The reason is that many readers apparently want the passage to mean what the NIV and TEV try to make it mean. That is, they don't want to accept the obvious and clear sense of 'first born of creation' as identifying Jesus as, 'of creation'. 'Other' is obnoxious to them because it draws attention to the fact that Jesus is 'of creation' and so when Jesus acts with respect to 'all things', he is actually acting with respect to all 'other' things. But the NW is correct.
Since the Jehovah's Witness organization believes that Jesus is created, they have inserted the word "other" to show that Jesus was before all "other" things
Truth in translation, accuracy and bias in English translations of the New testament p.83-84 (Probing the implicit meaning) - Jason BeDuhn.
NIV- New international version
NRSV - New revised standard version
TEV - Todays English version
LB - Living Bible
NW- New world translation of the Holy scriptures
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23 Nov 15
6 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhoa! Wait a minute!
Before I digest your comment you should unscramble this mixed quotation. It is very misleading because you have put two sections of writing together as if they represent one comment.
I'd prefer that you totally erase what you have from both quotations in one box rather than combine them.
What is inside the quotation box is a mishmash of two paragraphs that combined together make a mess.
This is a section where Jesus is described as being the creator of all things. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization believes that Jesus is created, they have inserted the word "other" to show that Jesus was before all "other" things an ....
Quote #1
- Christ and the church are one; Christ by His death has become the life of His people.
Quote #2
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieThat is, they don't want to accept the obvious and clear sense of 'first born of creation' as identifying Jesus as, 'of creation'. 'Other' is obnoxious to them because it draws attention to the fact that Jesus is 'of creation' and so when Jesus acts with respect to 'all things', he is actually acting with respect to all 'other' things. But the NW is correct.
Truth in translation, accuracy and bias in English translations of the New testament p.83-84 (Probing the implicit meaning) - Jason BeDhun.
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I know nothing at all about the book by Jason BeDhun.
That point of my last two posts was that it is true that some Bible readers do not like to think of Jesus Christ as a creature.
The revelation of the Bible is that the uncreated and the created were mingled together as one Person in the incarnation of Jesus.
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23 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThankyou.
fixd.
Christ is the Firstborn of all creation.
We have debated this in the past. And I argued and still argue that this does not mean Christ is NOT eternal but was the first creature God created.
But He was incarnated. And in preeminence, in being first place, being the most important, He is Firstborn of all creation.
I haven't changed. And probably you have not either.
Originally posted by sonshipyes but you have attacked the New world translation for an addition that is clearly marked as an addition, all additional words in the New world translation are marked in parenthesis why have you made no mention of any other translations which do not clearly show they words they have added and which in a far greater way alter the implicit meaning of the text?
[b] That is, they don't want to accept the obvious and clear sense of 'first born of creation' as identifying Jesus as, 'of creation'. 'Other' is obnoxious to them because it draws attention to the fact that Jesus is 'of creation' and so when Jesus acts with respect to 'all things', he is actually acting with respect to all 'other' things. But the NW is corr ...[text shortened]... t the uncreated and the created were mingled together as one Person in the incarnation of Jesus.
Originally posted by sonshipWhy you cannot except the obvious and clear sense of the term 'firstborn of all creation' is because you do not want to accept the obvious and clear sense of the term 'the first born of creation'.
Thankyou.
Christ is the Firstborn of all creation.
We have debated this in the past. And I argued and still argue that this does not mean Christ is NOT eternal but was the first creature God created.
But He was incarnated. And in preeminence, in being first place, being the most important, He is Firstborn of all creation.
I haven't changed. And probably you have not either.
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23 Nov 15
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsSometimes I did use God/man I do believe.
I don't understand Godman. Why don't you use God/man?
It is adequate to express the mingling of God and man. For mingling means a combination in which the component remain distinguishable.
Part of your being is already God.
I say, if you are a regenerated Christian, part of your being has already been made God in mingling -
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)
The Holy Spirit is God.
Your human spirit is you the human.
If you are regenerated the two have become joined to be "one spirit" .
That is the beginning, the first step in God obtaining in His church - God/men or Godmen. This is the revival that all believers must see and begin to LIVE according to.
This is the REVIVAL at the end of the age.
23 Nov 15
Originally posted by sonship'You will become just like God knowing good and bad'. Whose teaching is that?
Sometimes I did use God/man I do believe.
It is adequate to express the [b]mingling of God and man. For mingling means a combination in which the component remain distinguishable.
Part of your being is already God.
I say, if you are a regenerated Christian, part of your being has already been made God in mingling -
[quote] "He who is ...[text shortened]... ievers must see and begin to LIVE according to.
This is the REVIVAL at the end of the age.
23 Nov 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou're a user, plain and simple, using people for your own ends, which are despicable.
No i don't think you are correct, I am not Darth Vader I am Hans Solo, folk hero and legend. I resent you terming people scum. This designation marks your hypocrisy and you are unfit to call yourself a Christian. Perhaps if you simply apply Jesus own words to have a good hard look at yourself you just may do better. You could hardly do any worse t ...[text shortened]... evidence of having the spirit of disobedience rather than Gods holy spirit, which is peaceable.
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24 Nov 15
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobie'You will become just like God knowing good and bad'. Whose teaching is that?
'You will become just like God knowing good and bad'. Whose teaching is that?
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In Genesis Satan's temptation was that man would take something that God has yet in an independent way FROM God and in rebellion TO God. This brought man into union with Satan.
This brought in SIN and DEATH. And as a result the tree of life which represented nothing of God APART from God - but God Himself as eternal life, was cut off from man's enjoyment.
"And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil, and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever -
... So He drone the man out, and at the east of the garden of Eden He places the cherubim and a flaming sword which turned in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life." (See Gen. 3:22,24)
Partaking of the knowledge of good and evil in rebellion to God IMMEDIATELY cut man OFF from the divine and eternal life of God. God WANTED man to take in the divine and eternal life which is God HIMSELF.
The demand of God's glory - represented by the cherubim,
the demand of God's holiness - represented by the flame of fire,
and the demand of God's righteousness - represented by the sword, excluded man from receiving the life of God. From every possible direction it excluded man from taking God into himself.
And man was "ALIENATED from the life of God" (Eph, 14:18)
Who finally met the demand of the glory, the holiness and the righteousness of God ? Jesus, the Son of God. And Who is the life of God ? Jesus the Son of God.
And now the original eternal plan of God the the life of God may be imparted into man. For the righteousness of God has been met on Calvary. The glory of God has been manifested in the man Jesus, and the holiness of God has been expressed and vindicated in the life , death and resurrection of Jesus.
So eternally man is justified and through Christ has right to the tree of life and may enter into the gates of the eternal city of God and man.
" Blessed are those who wash their robes that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter by the gates into the city." (Revelation 22:14)
God wanted man to take in Himself as life.
Do not make the final salvation of God cause man to be guilty of the first temptation to be like God yet by joining Satan the source of of sin and death.
Remember that Satan corrupted his wisdom.
What knowledge of good and evil Satan possessed he corrupted in his revolt to rebel against God.
"Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty, you corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness ..." (Ezek. 28:17a)
God wants man to be like God in the way of living God from within him. Satan's rebellion was full of sin and death. Christ wants us to "EAT" Him so that we may live because of Him.
"As the living Father has sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)
The eternal will of God is INDEED that we be LIKE Him in all His communicable attributes.
"Beloved, now are we children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we will be. We know that if He is manifested, WE WILL BE LIKE HIM because we will see Him even as He is." (1 John 3:2)[ my emphasis]