120d
@kellyjay saidAnd what is your problem with this? That you don't believe the dating methods used by scientists?
Dinosaurs, but there are several species that we find fossils for that we place in one time period, not others. Cenozoic Era, Mesozoic Era, Paleozoic Era, and Cambrian have fossils we date and place at different times.
120d
@vivify saidNo, I don't, but that wasn't my point was it, debating time is meaningless as far as I'm concerned it is what we see that matters. An ever-changing lifeform due to its evolving non-stop, we see having respites of time, where things remain static from change over very long periods. When that occurs everything is clearly and remarkably distinct, my problem is if all of this comes from a common ancestor should we see that? Let alone plants, animals of totally different types, holding form and functions without a steady morphing due to evolutionary change that should continue today?
And what is your problem with this? That you don't believe the dating methods used by scientists?
120d
1 edit
@kellyjay saidEvolution depends on many factors, like circumstances in the environment. If organism A has different environmental pressures from organism B, the variance over time for each may be different.
No, I don't, but that wasn't my point was it, debating time is meaningless as far as I'm concerned it is what we see that matters. An ever-changing lifeform due to its evolving non-stop, we see having respites of time, where things remain static from change over very long periods. When that occurs everything is clearly and remarkably distinct, my problem is if all of this c ...[text shortened]... form and functions without a steady morphing due to evolutionary change that should continue today?
Let's say Organism A lives in the mountains while Organism B lives in lower elevations where there is more competition for resources and more predators. The environmental pressures of Organism B could result in more noticeable changes over time than with Organism A due to the environment on the mountain not changing much.
Evolution is constant but that doesn't mean the degree of noticeable change is at the same rate for all creatures.
120d
@vivify saidMutations and natural selection are not on the same time schedule, a mutation in a particular species can occur when resources are plentiful or scarce. Are you suggesting variations in species only occur when resources are scarce, or some other environmental factors, exactly how would that affect life on a cellular level in DNA so that new features and forms would arise?
Evolution depends on many factors, like circumstances in the environment. If organism A has different environmental pressures from organism B, the variance over time for each may be different.
Let's say Organism A lives in the mountains while Organism B lives in lower elevations where there is more competition for resources and more predators. The environmental pressure ...[text shortened]... onstant but that doesn't mean the degree of noticeable change is at the same rate for all creatures.
If everything is not always evolving, what mechanisms are driving the changes, when? Natural selection can only select what is there it has no foresight to create anything new, and we don’t see evidence of a constant evolution of all life, we see static forms.
120d
2 edits
@kellyjay saidThe degree of change in an organism can depend on many factors; environmental is just one example.
Are you suggesting variations in species only occur when resources are scarce, or some other environmental factors, exactly how would that affect life on a cellular level in DNA so that new features and forms would arise?
The point is that noticeable changes don't always happen at the same rate. Some creatures may go through more pronounced changes over generations while others may change less drastically.
Evolution is contently happening, even if it's on scales humans may not notice.
- Joined
- 14 Jan 19
- Moves
- 4134
120d
Discussing the pros and cons of Evolution is "absolutely" off-topic in a discussion about metaphysics, I would venture to say, based on what the general consensus of the general meaning of the two relative terms.
Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy that deals with fundamental ontological questions concerning the nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter, substance and attribute, potentiality and actuality. Topics such as the existence of God, the nature of time, and the concept of causality fall under metaphysics.
Evolution, on the other hand, is a scientific theory that explains the diversity of life on Earth and its history. While both topics deal with understanding the world around us, they approach it from very different perspectives. Metaphysics seeks to understand the fundamental nature of reality, while evolution provides a framework for understanding biological change over time.
- Joined
- 14 Jan 19
- Moves
- 4134
120d
@kellyjay saidHow about lies, can they be absolute?
All "truth" is absolute if it isn't absolute is it true?
How about relative truth, is it absolute?
How about degree of truth, is it absolute?
Absolute Truth: This is the highest level of truth, which is unchanging and universal. Absolute truth is considered to be true regardless of the observer or the context. There cannot be any subjectivity involving absolute truth.
Jesus said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Is there anything absolute in Jesus' statements? For instance, Jesus is the only way to the Father.
Provided anyone absolutely knows the Father, and absolutely knows there is only one road leading to the Father, how can the truth be established?
How do you go about asserting the truth?
I say to you that there is only one road leading to the red house we both see on top of the hill in front of us. It's possible for both of us to verify the information and say that it's true, if we survey the area thoroughly and see only one road leading to the house.
Then I tell you that my father is inside the house at this moment. I then take you inside and introduce you to a man and say it's my father.
At this point, I have, generally, demonstrated truth to a certain degree. Proving that it's my house, and proving that it's my father will require additionally verification to establish the truth in this respect.
120d
@kellyjay saidYour beliefs reside in you because of the millions of others around you and elsewhere who have the same residual beliefs; they are learned beliefs, you would not have invented your god on your own, and had you been born somewhere else you would have had different residual beliefs. I don't have a clue what on earth the rest of your post is on about.
My beliefs reside only in me, but that isn't the topic. I'm not sure what you think you can do with science if you cannot look at the universe and figure out what is and isn't real which would be an absolute. You are suggesting nature is enough, and that is what an absolute truth, or just what you want it me.
119d
@kellyjay saidI know we've done this one before, but you have a fundamental misunderstanding of evolution. There is nothing internally or externally 'driving the changes', nor does it have any 'foresight'. Evolution isn't 'trying to happen', nor is it inevitable. Static forms are static forms because they are able to survive within their environment, and no genetic mutation occurs which gives the mutant a better chance of survival.
Mutations and natural selection are not on the same time schedule, a mutation in a particular species can occur when resources are plentiful or scarce. Are you suggesting variations in species only occur when resources are scarce, or some other environmental factors, exactly how would that affect life on a cellular level in DNA so that new features and forms would arise?
...[text shortened]... te anything new, and we don’t see evidence of a constant evolution of all life, we see static forms.
119d
@indonesia-phil saidYou seem to think things happen with no reason required, even the movement of a ball requires some force to cause it to move. Nothing happens because, so when you look at the various parts of all cellular life you see so many parts keeping it alive and thriving and you think just because?
I know we've done this one before, but you have a fundamental misunderstanding of evolution. There is nothing internally or externally 'driving the changes', nor does it have any 'foresight'. Evolution isn't 'trying to happen', nor is it inevitable. Static forms are static forms because they are able to survive within their environment, and no genetic mutation occurs which gives the mutant a better chance of survival.
Natural selection only does one thing, and that is select from what is there already it does not build anything new, there is no mechanism within natural selection to do that; moreover, it doesn't even select except under specific types of conditions where resources are scare than the strong and fast will acquire the resources over the weaker slower species, but when resources are plentiful then it is all opportunity, not a striving over limited resources.
On top of that when discussing life, natural selection does not think ahead for anything so there isn't anything that would or could direct a mutation within life to build upon another to accomplish a complex task. I'd say you should stop just joining a group think, and think these things through yourself.
119d
@pettytalk saidNot at all, evolution from a common ancestor through a mindless, goalless, uncaring, process is unrealistic, calling that a natural explanation and it being untenable makes it worse than saying "God did it!" With God, there is a super intellect with unlimited power to do specialized functionally complex work with systems within systems that otherwise could not be done, that you cannot get processes that would only when required begin, and when it isn't needed to stop, without forethought.
Discussing the pros and cons of Evolution is "absolutely" off-topic in a discussion about metaphysics, I would venture to say, based on what the general consensus of the general meaning of the two relative terms.
Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy that deals with fundamental ontological questions concerning the nature of reality, including the relationship between min ...[text shortened]... ture of reality, while evolution provides a framework for understanding biological change over time.
Evolution can explain small changes within a lifeform, it does not at all explain a new form or feature. It makes for some great sci-fiction but it is not a good explanation when you look at the details of how it was supposed to do the work.
119d
@pettytalk saidA lie is a deviation from the truth, making them absolutely wrong.
How about lies, can they be absolute?
How about relative truth, is it absolute?
How about degree of truth, is it absolute?
Absolute Truth: This is the highest level of truth, which is unchanging and universal. Absolute truth is considered to be true regardless of the observer or the context. There cannot be any subjectivity involving absolute truth.
Jesus said: “ ...[text shortened]... g that it's my father will require additionally verification to establish the truth in this respect.
Give me a relative truth, not an opinion.
Anything true is absolute, if the temperature in your house goes up then at each degree the conditions change so does the truth of the temperature of your house, it will always line up with reality.
Absolute truth is simply the truth there are no levels, it is or is not.
119d
@pettytalk saidTruth things are simply true even if we don't understand or can validate, truth does not depend on human reasoning or understanding, we are enlightened when we know true things and in error when we believe untrue things.
How about lies, can they be absolute?
How about relative truth, is it absolute?
How about degree of truth, is it absolute?
Absolute Truth: This is the highest level of truth, which is unchanging and universal. Absolute truth is considered to be true regardless of the observer or the context. There cannot be any subjectivity involving absolute truth.
Jesus said: “ ...[text shortened]... g that it's my father will require additionally verification to establish the truth in this respect.
119d
1 edit
@kellyjay removed their quoted postCorrected version:
@indonesia-phil
My beliefs reside in me due to individual reasons, as do yours unless you are calling yourself a cone of the masses. It is painfully obvious you don't have a clue what I'm talking about if all your thoughts must come from a crowd of people around you and you are not looking at these things for yourself.