25 Oct 14
1 edit
Originally posted by lemon limeI am not making a claim about what people in a certain place know, I am pointing out that what whodey claimed is not true. It's deceptive hyperbole.
I'm wondering how it is someone like you would know more about this than people living close to the border...
Originally posted by FMFIt could be called an exaggeration, but hardly deceptive. It's entirely true that our immigration laws are being very poorly enforced. We know it and the illegal immigrants know it. Nearly everyone in the U.S. knows this, including certain politically motivated people who are reluctant to acknowledge this problem.
I am not making a claim about what people in a certain place know, I am pointing out that what whodey claimed is not true. It's deceptive hyperbole.
25 Oct 14
Originally posted by lemon limeYou may not like your government's policy regarding illegal aliens ~ and I might even be inclined to agree with you ~ but whodey's claim is false nevertheless. I remember listening to the Mark Levin show a few months back and him talking about the border patrol being stood down and immigration controls being suspended and deportations being discontinued etc. All untrue and all intended to poison the discourse.
It could be called an exaggeration, but hardly deceptive... it's entirely true that our immigration laws are being very poorly enforced. We know it and the illegal immigrants know it. Nearly everyone in the U.S. knows this, including certain politically motivated people who are reluctant to acknowledge it.
25 Oct 14
Originally posted by FMFAgain, Obama made exceptions for deportation for certain illegals via Executive Orders which are in direct opposition to the laws on the books.
When you said that the laws were being "completely ignored" were you aware or unaware that you were saying something untrue?
Were you unaware that saying he had not ignored the laws was also untrue?
25 Oct 14
2 edits
Originally posted by FMFThe bottom line is that Obama does not like the current illegal immigration policy, at least, this is what he claims. We also see evidence of this by his actions.
You may not like your government's policy regarding illegal aliens ~ and I might even be inclined to agree with you ~ but whodey's claim is false nevertheless. I remember listening to the Mark Levin show a few months back and him talking about the border patrol being stood down and immigration controls being suspended and deportations being discontinued etc. All untrue and all intended to poison the discourse.
The danger here then is abuse of power. You don't like the laws so you ignore them. We also see this with his own legislation of Obamacare. He shoves this massive entitlement down our throats and then ignores or suspends portions of the law that are politically inconvenient for him.
Do you deny this as well FMF?
As Mark Levin aptly points out, we live in a post Constitutional era. We are ruled by men, not by laws.
25 Oct 14
Originally posted by whodeyExceptions by way of Executive Orders and things like Federal policies superseding State policies, are all fully provided for in US law pertaining to immigration and illegal aliens, as you well know. You claiming that the government had "completely ignored" US law is untrue.
Again, Obama made exceptions for deportation for certain illegals via Executive Orders which are in direct opposition to the laws on the books.
Were you unaware that saying he had not ignored the laws was also untrue?
25 Oct 14
Originally posted by whodeyYour and my political opinion about immigration does not alter the fact that you made a demonstrably false claim. Personally I don't see why you couldn't have made your political point without resorting to making the untrue statement and I suppose it would not matter so much if it weren't for the fact you are trying to make some kind of moral point on a spirituality forum.
The bottom line is that Obama does not like the current illegal immigration policy, at least, this is what he claims. We also see evidence of this by his actions.
The danger here then is abuse of power. You don't like the laws so you ignore them. We also see this with his own legislation of Obamacare. He shoves this massive entitlement down our throats ...[text shortened]... Levin aptly points out, we live in a post Constitutional era. We are ruled by men, not by laws.
Originally posted by FMFDo you have any idea how one side of an argument looks when it only revolves around (and is completely dependent on) contesting the use of one particular word? All you have proven here is that you are not the least bit interested in whether immigration laws in the U.S are being adequately enforced or not.
Your and my political opinion about immigration does not alter the fact that you made a demonstrably false claim. Personally I don't see why you couldn't have made your political point without resorting to making the untrue statement and I suppose it would not matter so much if it weren't for the fact you are trying to make some kind of moral point on a spirituality forum.
26 Oct 14
Originally posted by lemon limeI don't think immigration laws in the US are being enforced satisfactorily and I believe they should be. This does not affect the fact that whodey does not argue the case in an honest way. In fact from what I remember of his behaviour on the Debates Forum he inhabits a "grey area" most of the time: calling for a better standard of integrity in politics but never demonstrating any personal commitment to integrity in discourse.
Do you have any idea how one side of an argument looks when it only revolves around (and is completely dependent on) contesting the use of one particular word? All you have proven here is that you are not the least bit interested in whether immigration laws in the U.S are being adequately enforced j not.
Originally posted by FMFI'm not interested in your personal opinion of whodey.
I don't think immigration laws in the US are being enforced satisfactorily and I believe they should be. This does not affect the fact that whodey does not argue the case in an honest way. In fact from what I remember of his behaviour on the Debates Forum he inhabits a "grey area" most of the time: calling for a better standard of integrity in politics but never demonstrating any personal commitment to integrity in discourse.
26 Oct 14
Originally posted by lemon limeThe topic is "pure grey area". I think whodey for the most part operates in one when it comes to discourse. I think the way he expressed his personal opinion about the US government and laws about illegal aliens illustrates this well. We are thus on topic I reckon.
I'm not interested in your personal opinion of whodey.
26 Oct 14
Originally posted by FMFNope, still not interested. Explaining why you want to talk about whodey rather than the topic he started is not something that interests me either. If you were to debate the issue instead of the person I don't think anyone would think less of you. I'm just saying, I don't see how doing it that way could hurt your image... do you?
The topic is "pure grey area". I think whodey for the most part operates in one when it comes to discourse. I think the way he expressed his personal opinion about the US government and laws about illegal aliens illustrates this well. We are thus on topic I reckon.
26 Oct 14
Originally posted by lemon limeThe topic/issue is "Pure grey area". whodey's approach to discourse provides a handy example of someone operating in one. I think the only things that are being bandied about here are personal opinions ~ including yours, mine and whodey's, even if those opinions do not interest each and every poster.
Nope, still not interested. Explaining why you want to talk about whodey rather than the topic he started is not something that interests me either. If you were to debate the issue instead of the person I don't think anyone would think less of you. I'm just saying, I don't see how doing it that way could hurt your image... do you?
I think we are still clearly on-topic, talking about the issue he raised, and ~ just to be clear about another opinion of mine [whether it interests you or not] ~ "Pure evil", "Pure goodness" and ~ in that context ~ "Pure grey area", all relate to and involve people, and what people do and say.
So, the suggestion that we should somehow debate these topics without it being about people and about what they do and say, strikes me as a bit of a non-starter. You, on the other hand, have made most of your four or five posts on this thread about me personally or about my opinion on US illegal aliens or whodey, and I welcome this.
