Symbols of the Third of the Trinity

Originally posted by divegeester

Every single thing you teach about the trinity is man made error, because the trinity teaching itself is error. It permeates all your thinking rendering your ministry ineffective.

Could you point out the error in the usage of "Us" in John 17:21 ?

And please identify the "error" in John's writing that the Son and the Father are the "We" in John 14:23.

Where did the Evangelist John get into an error in writing these things in His Gospel ?

Where is the error?

Originally posted by sonship
It is noted that you evaded the questions still.

So I will just have to press on for those who can see the divine [b]"We" and the divine "Us". I surely didn't write those passages.


We see that the Father and the Son are the divine "We" and the divine "Us". How about the Holy Spirit and God the Father?

The Holy Spirit s ...[text shortened]... od the Father knowing what is the mind of the Holy Spirit.

Praise God for His triune nature.[/b]

Sure, but God also knows the mind of man.

'The LORD knows the thoughts of man, That they are a mere breath.' (Psalm 94).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Sure, but God also knows the mind of man.

'The LORD knows the thoughts of man, That they are a mere breath.' (Psalm 94).

All true.
No debate from me there.

I think Paul's purpose there is not to teach that anyone of the Godhead is ignorant about what is in man's heart. I think his word is an encouragement that when we lack the words to utter, the interceding Spirit prays effectively on our behalf.

Yes, I fully agree that God knows what is in man's heart altogether.

Now the profound nature of God is not only depicted as a cloud and as wind and as breath. The Spirit is also seen as a river or in John 7 rivers [plural] of living water.

When Jesus speaks of "as the Scripture said" can you identify which Scripture He may have been referring to ? Remember, the only "Scripture" at that time was the Hebrew Bible.

Here is His reference:

" He who believes into Me, as THE SCRIPTURE SAID, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to
receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:38,39)

This is not an easy question, I don't think. Which scripture in the Old Testament was Jesus referring to ? Enjoy them as you look them up.

Originally posted by sonship
It is noted that you evaded the questions still.

So I will just have to press on for those who can see the divine [b]"We" and the divine "Us". I surely didn't write those passages.


We see that the Father and the Son are the divine "We" and the divine "Us". How about the Holy Spirit and God the Father?

The Holy Spirit s ...[text shortened]... od the Father knowing what is the mind of the Holy Spirit.

Praise God for His triune nature.[/b]

Your questions are irrelevant. The primary truth written throughout the OT hundred of times is that God is one. If you want to bend that truth because of a "we" or and "us" elsewhere in the Bible then that is your prerogative, but you would be in error. The Lord is ONE irrespective of whatever spin you put on other scripture.

Originally posted by divegeester

Your questions are irrelevant.

No they are not. They show that the whole truth of God's nature is that the God of Israel who is one God can speak of Himself with plural pronouns. And to quote this and expound upon is is hardly bending anything.

The primary truth written throughout the OT hundred of times is that God is one.

Not once on this forum do I recall anyone giving a rebuttal to my pointing out the Jehovah of hosts is both the Sender and the One sent in Zechariah 2:8-11.

The God of Israel is rather mysterious and wonderful. In fact He tells us in Isaiah 9:6 that His name is Wonderful - being the Mighty God as well as a born child; being the Eternal Father as well as the Son given.

If you want to bend that truth because of a "we" or and "us" elsewhere in the Bible then that is your prerogative, but you would be in error. The Lord is ONE irrespective of whatever spin you put on other scripture.

You have not explained where the "error" is. And I don't think you can explain where the "bend" is in my pointing out the Father and the Son as "We" come to make an abode with the lovers of Christ.

Echad can mean unity in diversity.

And it has been pointed out before that the Hebrew word translated "one" there in the
" Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is ... ONE" is also used in places like:

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall become ONE flesh." (Genesis 2:24)

The point is not that this also describes God's nature. The point is that "one" there is used as it is used in a verse you use to object to "three-one" as used by some careful Christian scholars.

We also see "one" used for the assembling of the various parts of the tabernacle in Exodus 26:6.

" And you shall make fifty clasps of gold, and join the curtains to one another with the clasps, so that the tebernacle may become [echad] one."

Echad - "one" is also seen in the joining of two fragments of sticks miraculously in the hand of Ezekiel, to become one.

" ... Thus says the Lord Jehovah, I am about to take the piece of wood of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel associated with him; and I will put them upon it, that is, the piece of wood of Judah, and make them one [echad] piece of wood, and they will be one in My hand."

The declaration of Deuteronomy 6;4-9 can't be used to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit cannot be the three-one God.

Echad is not so absolutely a Hebrew word making belief in the trinity impossible. In fact a stronger Hebrew word of "one" in the sense of one and only one is yachid. But the word which can mean diversity in unity is used in your Deuteronomy 6 verse - echad.

Originally posted by sonship

Your questions are irrelevant.

No they are not. They show that the whole truth of God's nature is that the God of Israel who is one God can speak of Himself with plural pronouns. And to quote this and expound upon is is hardly bending anything.

[quote] The primary truth written throughout the OT hundred of times is that God is one. [/ ...[text shortened]... ord which can mean diversity in unity is used in your [b]Deuteronomy 6 verse - echad.[/b]

Of course he is the sender AND the ne sent, because he is ONE, not THREE. Your arguments are waffle and straw.

The Lord is one; period, punto, finished.

Originally posted by divegeester
Of course he is the sender AND the ne sent, because he is ONE, not THREE. Your arguments are waffle and straw.

The Lord is one; period, punto, finished.

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image..."

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image..."

Is this a new revelation?

Originally posted by divegeester
Is this a new revelation?

'Us' and 'our' implies there is more than one entity to the godhead, no?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
'Us' and 'our' implies there is more than one entity to the godhead, no?

No, it could have been anyone God was talking to. Angels, people in eternity, other beings not mentioned in the Bible, "sheep of another flock".

God is ONE despite manifestations. The son is God revealed in the flesh. Jesus said:
- "I and the father are ONE". Not three, or me and him together in a threesome.
- "If you have seen me - you have seen the father".

They are the same being manifested differently. It's "the mystery of God in Christ" as the Bible puts it. It does not mean there are THREE people in the Godhead. That is pagan error.

Originally posted by divegeester
No, it could have been anyone God was talking to. Angels, people in eternity, other beings not mentioned in the Bible, "sheep of another flock".

God is ONE despite manifestations. The son is God revealed in the flesh. Jesus said:
- "I and the father are ONE". Not three, or me and him together in a threesome.
- "If you have seen me - you have seen ...[text shortened]... the Bible puts it. It does not mean there are THREE people in the Godhead. That is pagan error.

So there are "people in eternity" before he created people, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds like wishful thinking. Trinity aside, do you believe Jesus was God? If not what was he? You said you believe in the divinity of Christ, what does 'divinity' mean if it doesn't mean he was God?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So there are "people in eternity" before he created people, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds like wishful thinking. Trinity aside, do you believe Jesus was God? If not what was he? You said you believe in the divinity of Christ, what does 'divinity' mean if it doesn't mean he was God?

I can't believe you are asking me these questions. Do you actually read what I post?

My point about people in eternity is meant not as a claim but as a "it doesn't matter" who God was talking to - the fundamental truth is that God is ONE.

Originally posted by divegeester
I can't believe you are asking me these questions. Do you actually read what I post?

My point about people in eternity is meant not as a claim but as a "it doesn't matter" who God was talking to - the fundamental truth is that God is ONE.

It obviously doesn't matter to you. By the way, people who believe in the trinity do believe God is ONE. They don't believe in three separate Gods.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
It obviously doesn't matter to you. By the way, people who believe in the trinity do believe God is ONE. They don't believe in three separate Gods.

I know.

What doesn't matter to me?