take a stand

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Faith suggest God exists. Lack of proof suggests he doesn't.

So you have faith that faith is a "guessing game, I hope so, maybe there is a God" kind of thing? Like, "I'll believe just in case so don't go to hell when I die" wish? Like a superstition?

That's not what faith is. That's the kind of faith only an ignorant fool has. Real faith is substantial. Faith is based on Truth, and Truth is what it's all about. It boils down to just one basic fundamental. Jesus was raised from the dead.

"Lack of proof" is merely doubt. Doubt is the lack of faith in the Truth.

Otherwise this life has no purpose or meaning aside from living according to a self induced criteria and our certain demise.

Originally posted by whodey
Is that what Jesus did?

Yes. He advocated love, trust, charity, serenity, and other good qualities.

Originally posted by josephw
Otherwise this life has no purpose or meaning aside from living according to a self induced criteria and our certain demise.

Putting aside for one moment what you mean exactly by "living according to a self induced criteria and our certain demise" (and assume it means you are born, you live a life, and you die), why do you feel able or entitled to project onto other people (who don't believe the things you do) the assertion that their lives have "no purpose or meaning"? Why can't existence in combination with "criteria" and "certainties" result in "meaning"?

I can understand and respect that your religious beliefs give you a sense of "purpose or meaning" in your life, but it is surely a poor advertisement for your intellect and humanity if your religious beliefs have deprived you of the capacity to realize that people with different belief systems from you also find "purpose or meaning" in life.

Originally posted by apathist
Yes. He advocated love, trust, charity, serenity, and other good qualities.

Try reading Matthew 10 starting in verse 34.

Originally posted by FMF
.., but it is surely a poor advertisement for your intellect and humanity if your religious beliefs have deprived you of the capacity to realize that people with different belief systems from you also find "purpose or meaning" in life.

What makes you think my "religious beliefs" have "deprived" me "of the capacity to realize that people with different belief systems" don't have "purpose or meaning" in life?

My point, which you can't seem to bear, is that without Truth purpose and meaning is temporal. The True purpose and meaning of life is found in the one who gives life. It's a fundamental premise that without The Life, which is given by the one who created life, life has no lasting value regardless of whatever "purpose and meaning" one chooses to assimilate.

Without the resurrected Christ life is fundamentally without lasting meaning or purpose. Without the faith of Christ one's life comes to an abrupt and terminal end.

Faith in God, and God's Christ, is singularly exclusive.

Originally posted by josephw
What makes you think my "religious beliefs" have "deprived" me "of the capacity to realize that people with different belief systems" don't have "purpose or meaning" in life?

Because it's what you are saying, isn't it? You talk about your religious beliefs. And you talk about people who don't have them having lives with no purpose or meaning.

Originally posted by josephw
My point, which you can't seem to bear, is that without Truth purpose and meaning is temporal. The True purpose and meaning of life is found in the one who gives life. It's a fundamental premise that without The Life, which is given by the one who created life, life has no lasting value regardless of whatever "purpose and meaning" one chooses to assimilate.

But I do get your point. Your point is that you believe stuff about God, Jesus, and other stuff related to your religion. You talk about "The True purpose and meaning of life". But it's only "true" to you or others who share your religion. Everyone has "purpose and meaning". What you mean to say is that you yourself fell that you would have no "purpose and meaning" in life if it were not for your religious beliefs. This autobiographical information does not enable you to project your need for your religion onto the lives of other people who believe different things.

Originally posted by Eladar
Try reading Matthew 10 starting in verse 34.

And yet still he advocated as I said. That is a difficult passage, though, and one that fanatics can use to justify their hate and cruelty. Many Christians, though, recognize that he was warning against persecution. The Bible is an ink-blot, buddy, and we all find what we want within it. It is clear what you want.

Originally posted by josephw
Without the resurrected Christ life is fundamentally without lasting meaning or purpose. Without the faith of Christ one's life comes to an abrupt and terminal end.

Everyone's life "comes to an abrupt and terminal end". You may need to imagine and hope there is an "afterlife" and this may give you "purpose and meaning" but this does not mean that everyone needs to believe in an "afterlife" to give them "purpose and meaning" in life. If your religious beliefs have robbed you of the ability to know this and to empathize with fellow human beings who don't share your beliefs, it seems like your religious faith has take quite a toll on your humanity and your comprehension of the human condition.

Originally posted by FMF
Because it's what you are saying, isn't it? You talk about your religious beliefs. And you talk about people who don't have them having lives with no purpose or meaning.

You're cherry picking my words and reframing them to suit your own beliefs.

Belief in the resurrection is not a "religious" belief contrary to what you may think. Faith in Christ is not a "religion". Living a life of faith isn't a religious act. Basing one's life on the truth is living a life of purpose and meaning free of religious practices.

Originally posted by josephw
Belief in the resurrection is not a "religious" belief contrary to what you may think.

Yes it is. Don't be so silly. It's an example of what the words "religious belief" mean in the English language. Your religious beliefs, no matter how sincere or vehement, cannot change what the words mean.

Originally posted by apathist
And yet still he advocated as I said. That is a difficult passage, though, and one that fanatics can use to justify their hate and cruelty. Many Christians, though, recognize that he was warning against persecution. The Bible is an ink-blot, buddy, and we all find what we want within it. It is clear what you want.

You have no clue about what he meant by his words.

How could you?

Originally posted by josephw
Basing one's life on the truth is living a life of purpose and meaning free of religious practices.

Well, as long as you can acknowledge that everyone finds their own "purpose and meaning" and that the fact you have found yours in the Christian religion does not mean that they don't or can't, then perhaps we agree.

How would feel if I projected onto you a daft claim that because you are a Christian, you have no "purpose and meaning" in life, or if a Muslim asserted that because you are not a Muslim, you have no "purpose and meaning" in life?

It's just as numb to reality as you suggesting that only faith in Christ can give someone "purpose and meaning" in their lives.

As long as your purpose is limited to this life, sure. After death there will only be death.

Originally posted by Eladar
As long as your purpose is limited to this life, sure. After death there will only be death.

I acknowledge that you find "purpose and meaning" in life having convinced yourself that there is an "afterlife".