The evolution of the Coca Cola can

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
And you were there to see Creation.

And you survived the big bang. 😀

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
And you survived the big bang. 😀

What's your point? If you need to have been there to know, then you don't know. So don't claim that you do.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you assume the laws of physics magically appeared out of nothing then obviously not.

The laws of physics were created by man in order to describe the world we see around us.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
The laws of physics were created by man in order to describe the world we see around us.

I would take issue with that.

Certainly the mathematical formula and conceptual models we have to describe the universe
are man made approximations and abstractions that help us understand and predict the world...
But they work because the universe appears very strongly to follow rules.
If the universe didn't follow rules then our mathematical formulas wouldn't even approximate reality.

It's those hidden, but nonetheless existent, rules that govern the functioning of the universe that
are at issue here, and are the base laws of physics. And those were not 'created by humans'
[nor indeed by anyone else as far as we can tell].

Originally posted by googlefudge
I would take issue with that.

Certainly the mathematical formula and conceptual models we have to describe the universe
are man made approximations and abstractions that help us understand and predict the world...
But they work because the universe appears very strongly to follow rules.
If the universe didn't follow rules then our mathematical fo ...[text shortened]... ics. And those were not 'created by humans'
[nor indeed by anyone else as far as we can tell].

Yes they magically appeared out of nothing? How do you logically explain their existence?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Yes they magically appeared out of nothing? How do you logically explain their existence?

Nobody knows, not even you. And no, you cannot claim God made them because not even the Bible says that is the case. You simply don't know.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Yes they magically appeared out of nothing? How do you logically explain their existence?

Your are welcome to your opinions. For me, thier existence only makes sense within a theistic framework.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Nobody knows, not even you. And no, you cannot claim God made them because not even the Bible says that is the case. You simply don't know.

It follows logically that the creator of the universe would create the laws that govern it.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
It follows logically that the creator of the universe would create the laws that govern it.

No it doesn't.

I must also note that you have no good reason for thinking God created the universe. The Bible doesn't say so.

Originally posted by twhitehead
No it doesn't.

I must also note that you have no good reason for thinking God created the universe. The Bible doesn't say so.

Actually I see no reason why logic should even exist with an atheistic framework.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Actually I see no reason why logic should even exist with an atheistic framework.

That is because you don't understand what logic is or how to use it.

And I bet you can't explain why it should exist in a theistic framework. I bet you will give a non-explanation like 'God did it'. You might even be silly enough to say that God made logic, which would suggest that God himself is illogical.

Originally posted by twhitehead
That is because you don't understand what logic is or how to use it.

And I bet you can't explain why it should exist in a theistic framework. I bet you will give a non-explanation like 'God did it'. You might even be silly enough to say that God made logic, which would suggest that God himself is illogical.

Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God.

https://carm.org/transcendental-argument

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God.

https://carm.org/transcendental-argument

I suggest you try starting a thread on it and watch it get taken apart piece by piece. Whoever came up with that, is not familiar with logic.

Did you familiarise yourself with it? Do you feel capable of defending it?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I suggest you try starting a thread on it and watch it get taken apart piece by piece. Whoever came up with that, is not familiar with logic.

Did you familiarise yourself with it? Do you feel capable of defending it?

Well for a start why don't you fill me in on how exactly logic came to exist within an atheistic framework with no absolutes.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Well for a start why don't you fill me in on how exactly logic came to exist within an atheistic framework with no absolutes.

I don't know what you mean by 'an atheistic framework with no absolutes'. Seems illogical to me.
I don't think logic came to exist at all. I think logic isn't a thing, and doesn't have 'existence'. That is why I find the idea that God created logic to be ridiculous in the extreme. How could he even 'create' without logic? How could we even discuss the creation of logic if logic is only transitory? Its illogical.