The Misuse of Shema

Originally posted by sonship
No, Lee got that right also.

Once a person is born he cannot be unborn.
The credit has to go to the Bible.

But we have gone over again and again [b]1 Corinthians 3:13-15 many times in the past. And you never been about to refute it.

Some are saved and rewarded.
Some are saved yet so as through fire.
They suffer loss and lose a certain rewa ...[text shortened]... ? The dispenasional discipine still holds true.

Once born again you cannot be unborn again.[/b]

Once you are born or born again, you can be destroyed... notice you are not UNBORN, but DESTROYED. God can destroy anything that he so pleases. Get used to that fact otherwise you will be held accountable for your false teachings and ignoring and cherry picking the bible.

Conveniently you ignore the very next verse in 1 Cor 3 because you very well know that it contradicts your false doctrine. And we have gone over this and I showed you VERSE 17 but you rather wallow in ignorance and delusion. Here is the whole passage

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:14-17 KJV)

Three groups of Christians who will face judgement:
1. Verse 14 - Those doing good work and who will be rewarded.
2. Verse 15 - Those doing not doing good works and who will still be saved
3, Verse 17 - Those who will be destroyed because they have defiled Gods temple. [which you continue to crookedly leave out]

Those Christians who can read and understand will get the point. You ... you are a hopeless case of stupidity and arrogance mixed into one.

Originally posted by Rajk999
[b]Once you are born or born again, you can be destroyed... notice you are not UNBORN, but DESTROYED. God can destroy anything that he so pleases. Get used to that fact otherwise you will be held accountable for your false teachings and ignoring and cherry picking the bible.

Conveniently you ignore the very next verse in 1 Cor 3 because you very wel ...[text shortened]... will get the point. You ... you are a hopeless case of stupidity and arrogance mixed into one.[/b]

Once you are born or born again, you can be destroyed... notice you are not UNBORN, but DESTROYED.
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This is not to lose the gift of eternal life.

Now, the old man will be done away one way or the other.
If it is done away with cooperation with God, that is one matter which is sweeter.

However, if it is done away with more force and suddeness at the coming of Christ, that will be to suffer as in "suffer loss".

Therefore one way or another the old man is dealt with. It is up to the Christian whether this is done by cooperating with the process of sanctification and transformation or whether he wants to POSTPONE such dealings and "suffer loss" more suddenly.

God knew that in the age of grace some of His children will willingly cooperate with the process of sanctification and some would procrastinate. Therefore before the eternal age begins in Revelation 21 and 22 He placed beforehand the millennial kingdom of 1,000 years a reward.

It escapes many Bible readers' notice that the age of eternity does not begin at the second coming of Christ. There is a preliminary kingdom age of one thousand years. So it does make a difference to our willing cooperation with His grace or out postponing procrastination loving the world instead.


God can destroy anything that he so pleases. Get used to that fact otherwise you will be held accountable for your false teachings and ignoring and cherry picking the bible.

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Cutting straight the word of God you call "cherry picking".

In the meantime you have not been able to refute that in the very Corinthian letter a Christian brother was disciplined that he might suffer the destruction of part of his being that his spirit may be SAVED on the day of the Lord Jesus.

If what you taught was true, this Christian would have NOTHING LEFT to be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus. And in that case Paul would have just said that he turned him over to destruction PERIOD.

Checkmate.

"... deliver such a one to the destruction of the flesh THAT ... his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." ( 1 Cor. 5:5)

Conveniently you ignore the very next verse in 1 Cor 3 because you very well know that it contradicts your false doctrine. And we have gone over this and I showed you VERSE 17 but you rather wallow in ignorance and delusion. Here is the whole passage
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You ignore that in the very epistle there is an EXAMPLE of a Christian turned over to discipline of the DESTRUCTION "that his spirit may be saved."

You are bragging. You are boasting. And your boast has no foundation whatsoever.

And I am not going to give more attention to your post at this time because to refute and refute over and over again with the same person is monotonous.

Verse 17's destruction is exampled in chapter five's Christian whose gross sin caused Paul to deliver him for dispensation destruction. THAT HIS SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED.

And other examples could be given in abundance.

Originally posted by sonship
[b] Once you are born or born again, you can be destroyed... notice you are not UNBORN, but DESTROYED.
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This is not to lose the gift of eternal life.

Now, the old man will be done away one way or the other.
If it is done away with cooperation with God, tha ...[text shortened]... on destruction. THAT HIS SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED.

And other examples could be given in abundance.[/b]

Like I said, the United States of America is reputed to have the worlds worst education system. Even graduates from their universities lack the ability to read, write and understand simple english .. I pity you. Go spend a few years in a British environment and learn the Queens English. So you quote this:

1 Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Is that your trump card? This passage is supposed to prove that even those who comit grave sins WILL be saved? Do you understand the difference between MAY be saved and WILL be saved? Paul is saying that if you excommunicate sinners and offenders within the church MAYBE they will learn and MAYBE they can change ... MAYBE. Some will learn and come back to the church, and some will not and those who do not learn those will be destroyed according to 1 Cor 3.

Paul further warns in the previous chapter against those like yourself and false churches that like to prejudge and to tell people that they are eternally saved :

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. (1 Corinthians 4:5 KJV)

JUDGE NOTHING BEFORE ITS TIME. LET GOD JUDGE.

On the day of judgment Christ will judge all people.

Originally posted by Rajk999

Like I said, the United States of America is reputed to have the worlds worst education system. Even graduates from their universities lack the ability to read, write and understand simple english .. I pity you. Go spend a few years in a British environment and learn the Queens English. So you quote this:

This is suppose to be your rebuttal ?
Dissing the US educational system in favor of the Brits is your rebuttal ?

This is scraping the bottom of the barrel for sure.
Do you want to deflect the issue to be about where the better public school system is ?
You're getting desperate.

1 Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

If God causes one believer in Christ to be eternally lost then He is not righteous.

Go to England and sit in one of those FINE public institutions of learning and read aloud this passage:

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and RIGHTEOUS to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)

Now I want you to pay SPECIAL ATTENTION to the what this verses says and even does NOT say.

It does not say He is faithful and liberal. (That one's for checkbaiter)
It does not say He is faithful and magnanimus.
It does not say He is faithful and permissive.
It does not say He is faithful and downright sloppy.
It does not say He is faithful and easygoing.

It does not even say, at least in this verse, He is faithful and merciful.
What does it say ?

"He is faithful and ***RIGHTEOUS*** ... to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

FAITFHUL AND RIGHTEOUS. If God does not forgive the believer in Jesus Christ He is not RIGHTEOUS.

Righteousness is the foundation of God's throne. It is not a matter of He is liberal and accommodating. It is a matter of forgiving us is the RIGHTEOUS THING for God to DO.

If He would not cleanse the confessor of all unrighteousness then He would be unrighteous. His throne's foundation would waver and collapse.

Psalm 889:14

New American Standard Bible
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; Lovingkindness and truth go before You.

King James Bible
Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; faithful love and truth go before You.

You will protest - "But that will lead to cheap grace! That will lead to Christians claiming license to live in any sloppy unrighteous manner they want."

No it will not. God is not mocked.
We will confess sooner or latter hidden beloved sins.
They will be forsaken or the soul life will be "destroyed" when it comes for the rewards to be given before the judgment seat of Christ. That is that the spirit may be saved through dispensational discipline during the millennial kingdom of 1,000 years.

Christ has died for the believer's sins.
God is faithful AND RIGHTEOUS to establish that the believer's eternal redemption is because JUDGEDMENT in Jesus Christ on His cross has taken place on the sinner's behalf..

He is FAITHFUL and He is RIGHTEOUS not to make His claim on two.
On Calvary His claim was put on Christ on the sinner's behalf for an eternal redemption.
If He does not forgive he who has believed into the Son He is UNRIGHTEOUS in going back on His judgment on Christ on behalf of the sinner's sins for eternal redemption.

Originally posted by sonship

Like I said, the United States of America is reputed to have the worlds worst education system. Even graduates from their universities lack the ability to read, write and understand simple english .. I pity you. Go spend a few years in a British environment and learn the Queens English. So you quote this:

This is suppose to be your rebutt ...[text shortened]... and justice are the foundation of Your throne; faithful love and truth go before You.
[/quote]

What utter garbage you believe that .. If God causes one believer in Christ to be eternally lost then He is not righteous.. God does not cause believers to be lost. They continue with their grave unforgivable sins and then they are lost. Judas Iscariot was lost .. was that Gods fault?

As for this : "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and RIGHTEOUS to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)

As usual continue reading and dont stop where it suits your false doctrine . Continue reading and you will see that John says that those who are really in Christ will avoid sin. God is faithful and will forgive ... BUT YOU ARE IGNORING THE DUTY OF THE BELIEVER. Anyway you continue with your sins and continue preaching garbage .. its your funeral.

Originally posted by sonship
You will protest - "But that will lead to cheap grace! That will lead to Christians claiming license to live in any sloppy unrighteous manner they want."

No it will not. God is not mocked.
We will confess sooner or latter hidden beloved sins.
They will be forsaken or the soul life will be "destroyed" when it comes for the rewards to be given before th ...[text shortened]... S in going back on His judgment on Christ on behalf of the sinner's sins for eternal redemption.

Correct !! God is not mocked. Christians who continue with their sinful worldly life after accepting Christ is mocking God. God will deal with them :

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. (Galatians 6:7-8 KJV)

Not all Christians live in the Spirit or sow to the Spirit.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Correct !! God is not mocked. Christians who continue with their sinful worldly life after accepting Christ is mocking God. God will deal with them :

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of ...[text shortened]... asting. (Galatians 6:7-8 KJV)

Not all Christians live in the Spirit or sow to the Spirit.

So ??

So Once Saved Always Saved AND God knows how to complete the work He starts in everyone who is saved.

" Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun in you a good work will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus." (Phil. 1:6)

The word of God says He will COMPLETE IT .
You want to teach that God may NOT complete it.

I believe Philppians 1:6 and many other passages like it in the Bible.

No God doesn't have to seek Rajk999's advice on whether He should complete it or leave it incomplete, causing the saved man to perish afterall.

Originally posted by sonship
So ??

So Once Saved Always Saved AND God knows how to complete the work He starts in everyone who is saved.

[b] " Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun in you a good work will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus." (Phil. 1:6)

The word of God says He will COMPLETE IT .
You wan ...[text shortened]... whether He should complete it or leave it incomplete, causing the saved man to perish afterall.[/b]

And it continues ... every single time without exception when you quote these passages you show how you cherrypick the Bible to suit your twisted doctrine.

READ THE WHOLE OF PHILLIPIANS, and you will see that Paul clarifies the statement with this:

Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) (Philippians 3:17-19 KJV)

So the whole story, if you care to know it, is that God will continue working with those Christians who deserve eternal life and who deserve to be in His Kingdom. Not all Christians deserve that privilege.

Did you read it - some Christians are ENEMIES OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST, they are worldly, sinful, greedy selfish .. and these will end in DESTRUCTION....

Originally posted by Rajk999

and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) (Philippians 3:17-19 KJV)

Reminds me of your own fleshly and carnal worldly wisecrack about wet dreams in your "ministry" to me this morning.

All Christians will be in the Kingdom of God ? No way! The Bible never says that .. that is your wet dream pal .. wake up - Rajk999

Originally posted by sonship

and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) (Philippians 3:17-19 KJV)

Reminds me of your own fleshly and carnal worldly wisecrack about wet dreams in your "ministry" to me this morning.

All Christians will be in the Kingdom of God ? No way! The Bible never says that .. that is your wet dream pal .. wake up - Rajk999

I have no ministry, I idolise no man or organisation and I belong to no church.
I belong to Christ.

Worldly wisecrack? Who cares? You need to think about what you believe and whether or not it is in keeping with the teachings of Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have no ministry, I idolise no man or organisation and I belong to no church.
I belong to Christ.

Worldly wisecrack? Who cares? You need to think about what you believe and whether or not it is in keeping with the teachings of Christ.

I have no ministry,

You seem to have a "ministry of condemnation".

I idolise no man or organisation and I belong to no church.

You say this because you probably think the word "ministry" refers to clergy.

I did not say you were a clergyman. By teaching the Bible you do have a ministry.
Since so often I see you bemoaning that Christians do not come up to the standard, I would say you mostly want to have a "ministry of condemnation."

I belong to Christ.

Then you belong at least to the church universal.

Worldly wisecrack? Who cares? You need to think about what you believe and whether or not it is in keeping with the teachings of Christ.

You assume that I have not done a good deal of thinking about what I believe and what I write.


If you are so independent that no one balances you or compliments you then you are like the lone ranger. This is not a good sign.

I have many brothers who balance me. I can be corrected and exposed by many Christians that I regularly meet with.

Yea, I would prefer to go it all alone and have no one stand in the way of the BIG ME.
I have found out though that I need to be in the Body where we are "members one of another".

I have found that God has designed the Christian life so that I must be a member of the Body of Christ. I learned a great deal in the genuine local church life.

www.localchurches.org

You say I need to think about what I believe. I do and I will.
You need to seek the Lord Jesus why you are so isolated and independent.
You need to ask God to deliver you from being so off on your own tangent that you cannot be complimented, balanced, blended with others.

Start by getting together with another brother and PRAYING for people.