What do you think they are talking about?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
So if a born again Christian turns from Jesus he loses his salvation?

Answer my question to you please, I have attempted to answer all of yours? What did Jesus say about those that deny Him before men

Originally posted by KellyJay
If a born again Christian rejects Christ do you believe that they are now denying Christ before man? Do you think that a born again Christian rejects God that they are doing that against what the Holy Spirit is warning them against? Do you think that they care about Jesus being Lord, or that they are trampling Jesus under foot? You think anyone who treats J ...[text shortened]... ighting their sinful nature to serve God and is struggling to overcome something in their lives.

There are many Christians who being born again, not necessarily denying Christ or the reasons you mention, who for whatever reason, pressure or whatever, lost interest and are no longer seeking, but instead are living worldly. The verse is saying that it is impossible to renew them to repentance.
So, let's say that after 10 years or so and are convicted, they cannot return to the lord. Why? Because it says it is impossible.
Is the verse wrong? Or are they forever lost?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
There are many Christians who being born again, not necessarily denying Christ or the reasons you mention, who for whatever reason, pressure or whatever, lost interest and are no longer seeking, but instead are living worldly. The verse is saying that it is [b]impossible to renew them to repentance.
So, let's say that after 10 years or so and are co ...[text shortened]... rd. Why? Because it says it is impossible.
Is the verse wrong? Or are they forever lost?[/b]

Are you going to answer my questions?

We don't come to God on our own, God calls us. So if a sinner isn't called will they come uncalled, and if we treated Jesus with such contempt will we be accepted? When blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is done can one recover?

We are warned against turning away from God in both the NT and OT, why bother if I can sin without repentance once born again?

I will not bother asking you this again if you don't answer again. What did Jesus say if we denied Him before men?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
So if a born again Christian turns from Jesus he loses his salvation?

Jesus answers this question in the parable of the forgiven servant who would not forgive.

After his debt was forgiven, the debt was remembeted and he was given thrown in jail until he could repay his debt.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Are you going to answer my questions?

We don't come to God on our own, God calls us. So if a sinner isn't called will they come uncalled, and if we treated Jesus with such contempt will we be accepted? When blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is done can one recover?

We are warned against turning away from God in both the NT and OT, why bother if I can ...[text shortened]... asking you this again if you don't answer again. What did Jesus say if we denied Him before men?

God speaks to both of you and God tells you conflicting doctrines?

You people have a relationship with your brain... not God.

Originally posted by Eladar
Jesus answers this question in the parable of the forgiven servant who would not forgive.

After his debt was forgiven, the debt was remembeted and he was given thrown in jail until he could repay his debt.

Bottom line God will have mercy on who He will have mercy.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Are you going to answer my questions?

We don't come to God on our own, God calls us. So if a sinner isn't called will they come uncalled, and if we treated Jesus with such contempt will we be accepted? When blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is done can one recover?

We are warned against turning away from God in both the NT and OT, why bother if I can ...[text shortened]... asking you this again if you don't answer again. What did Jesus say if we denied Him before men?

We don't come to God on our own? Now I understand. You are a Calvinist.
You believe in pre election. I see why you are stuck in your beliefs. Now it makes sense.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
We don't come to God on our own? Now I understand. You are a Calvinist.
You believe in pre election. I see why you are stuck in your beliefs. Now it makes sense.

Not every thought that enters you head means God is speaking to you

Originally posted by checkbaiter
We don't come to God on our own? Now I understand. You are a Calvinist.
You believe in pre election. I see why you are stuck in your beliefs. Now it makes sense.

No, I suggest you look at Jesus' words not mine.

Since you are still avoiding my question, I'll not ask you any more I can see it is something
you don't want to address.

We love our sins, and if it were not for God seeking us out we would never come on our
own. We have choice, and without God drawing us, starting a good work in us, we would
be completely lost. Our salvation rests on God for his glory not our own, and when those
who think they are worthy due to the works they do come to God without Jesus' blood,
they will die in their sins. Salvation It isn't about us, it is about Jesus Christ, His work to
save us!.


John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, I suggest you look at Jesus' words not mine.

Since you are still avoiding my question, I'll not ask you any more I can see it is something
you don't want to address.

We love our sins, and if it were not for God seeking us out we would never come on our
own. We have choice, and without God drawing us, starting a good work in us, we would
be comp ...[text shortened]... e to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I see. I will answer all of your questions.
You referred to ...
Matt 10:32-33

32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
NKJV

The words “will confess” is a verb in the future tense and the context is people who testify of Jesus will be dragged before the authorities and interrogated and beaten ( Matt 10:16-20). Those will be difficult times. People who continue to confess Christ as Lord will be tortured, imprisoned, and even killed. There will be great temptation to simply deny the Lord to be set free, but Jesus warns us to continue to confess him in those difficult times, and if we do, he will confess us before the Father.

The other thing you mention is John 6:44-45
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
NKJV
I will make it easy on myself by showing you this commentary...
“No one is able to come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.” This verse is sometimes used to prove the theory of predestination or to assert that God chooses those who will be saved and those who will not. However, if we examine the verse in its context and in light of the whole scope of Scripture, we will see that this verse is not speaking of predestination, but is referring to God’s constant efforts to help and bless people, and to bring them to Himself. In fact, instead of being a verse supporting predestination, when it is properly understood, this verse and the verses around it are a testimony to the freewill of man and that we humans ultimately decide whether or not we will believe and obey God, and thus determine our own eternal fate.

In the context, the Jews had been grumbling about the claims Jesus was making about himself (John 6:41, 42). God was trying to draw even those hard-hearted Jews to Himself, but they were suspicious and spiritually blind. Their hardheartedness was what was keeping them from properly seeing the great miracles that Jesus was doing and then concluding that he was a prophet of God and perhaps even the Messiah. They should have been at least convinced by Jesus’ miracles that he was a prophet of God; after all, many common people had made that connection, and these leaders should have been much more educated about the Law and the actions of a prophet than the common people. A few chapters earlier, the Pharisee named Nicodemus properly concluded: “...you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one is able to do these signs that you do unless God is with him” (John 3:2). However, unlike the humble and pure-hearted Nicodemus, these Jews in John 6 were fighting against God, who was actively working in Jesus’ life by signs and miracles to demonstrate that he was the Messiah. All this is made plain in the next verse (v. 45), which Jesus quoted to show what he meant when he said that no one could come to him without the Father drawing him.

In John 6:45, Jesus quoted Isaiah 54:13 and explained its implications. Jesus quoted the phrase, “They will all be taught of God,” which shows that God is trying to reach and teach everyone. No one is excluded from our loving heavenly Father’s attempts to touch their hearts and teach them truth. However, not everyone listens to God. The Pharisees, for example, rejected God’s plan for them when they refused to be baptized by John (Luke 7:30). In fact, most of the Jews did not submit to God’s will when it came to faith in Christ (Rom. 10:3). Jesus quoted Isaiah 54:13 to show that God was attempting to teach everyone, then he further explained that “Everyone who has heard from the Father, and has learned, comes to me.” Thus he made the point that God is always trying to teach everyone, but some people close their ears (Ps. 58:3-5; Ezek. 12:12; Zech. 7:11; Matt. 13:15; Acts 7:51; 28:27; 2 Tim. 4:4) and harden their hearts (Zech. 7:12; Heb. 3:8, 15; 4:7). Thus, these prideful people did not learn from God, and were not drawn to Jesus Christ. But the people who are humble and hear God’s voice and pay attention to it and follow it, come to Jesus as a result. Their coming is their own choice, but they come because God is constantly trying to draw them to Himself. Again, Isaiah 54:13 and other verses make the point that God’s will is that everyone come to Him (cp. 1 Tim. 2:4). That these Jews did not believe in Jesus due to their failure to listen to God was their choice and their problem, not God’s.

It is important to notice that at no time in the discourse did Jesus excuse the Jews, as if their attitude towards him was not their fault. If the Calvinistic doctrine of predestination is true, then somewhere in Jesus’ dialogue with these Jews we would have expected Jesus to have some pity on these unbelievers, realizing that they could not believe unless God helped them believe, and so their unbelief was not their fault. However, he never said, or implied, anything like that. In studying the doctrine of predestination, we must realize that all through the Bible, Jesus, and the other writers as well, when addressing unbelievers, always laid the blame for the unbelief on the unbelievers themselves, never on God. But if the doctrine of predestination is correct, the basic unbelief of unbelievers is always God’s “fault,” never theirs. That is because according to the Calvinistic doctrine of predestination, if God does not specifically move a person to believe, that person will remain in unbelief. In fact, when there were some in the audience who did not believe, (John 6:64), and some disciples who went away (John 6:66), Jesus turned to his disciples and asked, “Do you want to go away as well?” (John 6:67). The fact he asked them if they “wanted” to go away shows that he was respecting their choice to stay with him as a disciple, or leave him. To believe or to remain and unbeliever is our choice, not God’s.

Now as far as Hebrews where it states it is impossible is because it is impossible. Since one cannot lose their salvation in the first place, that is why it says it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, because they never lost the spirit in them.
You cannot get unborn again spiritually any more than you can get unborn from your earthly mother. Furthermore, you cannot get born again again since this is crucifying the Lord afresh.
Once you are born again, filled with holy spirit, it is permanent. Some people can and will turn from the Lord, but they will still be saved as if by fire. They will be ashamed and suffer great loss at His return but they will be saved.
That is all I have to say on the matter and am done here. It is something all Christians will have to delve into to get a better understanding. This is what I believe the bible teaches. Every Christian here has their own perception of reading or interpretation. Most will not take the words of God and meditate on them. Not everyone will agree with my stance here and that is okay. However it is your responsibility to harmonize all scripture and find out why, for example the bible says it is God's will that all men be saved and John 6:44 where Jesus says you cannot come to God unless he draws you.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I see. I will answer all of your questions.
You referred to ...
[b]Matt 10:32-33

32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
NKJV

The words “will confess” is a verb in the future tense ...[text shortened]... ]all[/b] men be saved and John 6:44 where Jesus says you cannot come to God unless he draws you.[/b]

This nonsense:

Now as far as Hebrews where it states it is impossible is because it is impossible. Since one cannot lose their salvation in the first place, that is why it says it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, because they never lost the spirit in them.
You cannot get unborn again spiritually any more than you can get unborn from your earthly mother. Furthermore, you cannot get born again again since this is crucifying the Lord afresh.

Do you really believe that? Its utter unbiblical garbage.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I see. I will answer all of your questions.
You referred to ...
[b]Matt 10:32-33

32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
NKJV

The words “will confess” is a verb in the future tense ...[text shortened]... ]all[/b] men be saved and John 6:44 where Jesus says you cannot come to God unless he draws you.[/b]

Really, if I wanted a commentary why would I be talking to you.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I see. I will answer all of your questions.
You referred to ...
[b]Matt 10:32-33

32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
NKJV

The words “will confess” is a verb in the future tense ...[text shortened]... ]all[/b] men be saved and John 6:44 where Jesus says you cannot come to God unless he draws you.[/b]

You referred to ...
Matt 10:32-33

32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
NKJV

"The words “will confess” is a verb in the future tense and the context is people who testify of Jesus will be dragged before the authorities and interrogated and beaten ( Matt 10:16-20). Those will be difficult times. People who continue to confess Christ as Lord will be tortured, imprisoned, and even killed. There will be great temptation to simply deny the Lord to be set free, but Jesus warns us to continue to confess him in those difficult times, and if we do, he will confess us before the Father."


First let me say thank you for taking the time. I get what you are saying, but I think you are
watering it down by putting it into a specific context only. If you are not confessing Jesus
in your every day life, do you think that matters, or just the context you are referring to?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I see. I will answer all of your questions.
You referred to ...
[b]Matt 10:32-33

32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
NKJV

The words “will confess” is a verb in the future tense ...[text shortened]... ]all[/b] men be saved and John 6:44 where Jesus says you cannot come to God unless he draws you.[/b]

This is a statement of faith I do not believe is true.

" Since one cannot lose their salvation in the first place,"

Revelation 3:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Peter 3:17
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Romans 11: 21
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Originally posted by KellyJay
This is a statement of faith I do not believe is true.

" Since one cannot lose their salvation in the first place,"

Revelation 3:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come ...[text shortened]... s 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Yes, I know those verses well. But how would you reconcile Ephesians where salvation is guaranteed? And many other places too numerous to mention?
BTW, I used commentaries because they articulate well what I want to say and saves a lot of time.