"What We Believe"

Originally posted by JS357
A remaining comment on ""The Bible: We believe that the Bible, composed of 66 canonical books [b]in their original languages, is the inspired, inerrant and infallible Word of God (Psa 119:89; 2Tim 3:16; 2Pet 1:20-21)."

(emphasis added)

Apparently he did not believe that God would preserve the "inspired, inerrant and infallible" nature of the canon th ...[text shortened]... ence to me; it's just a curiosity in comparison with other religious opinions I'm accustomed to.[/b]

"Apparently he did not believe that God would preserve the "inspired, inerrant and infallible" nature of the canon through their translation to Latin and subsequent renderings." -JS357

Any particular sentences or paragraphs relating to this observation?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Apparently he did not believe that God would preserve the "inspired, inerrant and infallible" nature of the canon through their translation to Latin and subsequent renderings." -JS357

Any particular sentences or paragraphs relating to this observation?

Years ago when this became an interest to me, a book which really helped, and which I keep two copies of in my library was -

"A General Introduction To The Bible" by Giesler and Nix.

Inspiration,
Illumination,
Transmission,
Different schools of Inspiration,
Schools of thought on Inerrancy,
Infallibility,
Old and New Testament Canon history,
Disputed book
histories,
etc.

Many subjects are covered. Recommended to anyone serious about the matter of Divine Inspiration and the schools of thought concerning this.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"canonical" or canonicity derives from the Greek 'kanon': a rod or ruler, measuring stick or norm Galatians 6:16; Philippians 3:16. The Bible is the absolute divine standard; for 66 book canonization explanation detail, please check Wenstrom first.

http://www.wenstrom.org/modules.php?name=StaticText&pagename=what_we_believe

Sorry, not interested in walls of text. If you cannot explain it in your own words then just say so, and leave it at that.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Sorry, not interested in walls of text. If you cannot explain it in your own words then just say so, and leave it at that.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (Page 2)
1) "The Bible: We believe that the Bible, composed of 66 canonical books in their original languages, is the inspired, inerrant and infallible Word of God (Psa 119:89; 2Tim 3:16; 2Pet 1:20-21)."

Originally posted by twhitehead
Does this inerrancy and infallibility only apply to the original works which as far as we know, no longer exist? I find the mention of 'original languages' curious.
And why those particular 66 books?

"canonical" or canonicity derives from the Greek 'kanon': a rod or ruler, measuring stick or norm Galatians 6:16; Philippians 3:16. The Bible is the absolute divine standard; for 66 book canonization explanation detail, please check Wenstrom first.

http://www.wenstrom.org/modules.php?name=StaticText&pagename=what_we_believe
____________________________________________

Brief; definitive. Apparently, curiosity here is as fleeting as with "Testimony of Adel Mohammed El Naggar". So be it.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Brief; definitive.

Except, as usual, you didn't bother to read my question as your answer is not an answer to my question.

....as fleeting as with "Testimony of Adel Mohammed El Naggar". So be it.
What are you on about there? You promised to answer my questions in that thread but didn't. Now you act like my interest is fleeting?
I guess you are a lost cause.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Except, as usual, you didn't bother to read my question as your answer is not an answer to my question.

[b]....as fleeting as with "Testimony of Adel Mohammed El Naggar". So be it.
What are you on about there? You promised to answer my questions in that thread but didn't. Now you act like my interest is fleeting?
I guess you are a lost cause.[/b]

When you said: "This is why I suggested other posters be involved. You never get the point." I bumped the thread once then stopped answering. "The I AM sayings prove Jesus to be Divine" by Adel Mohammed El Naggar has since peen posted.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Do you think you might be able to explain this apparent contradiction? How can youi simultaneously believe that there is absolutely nothing someone can do to save themselves and at the same time that to be saved you must choose to believe in Jesus Christ?" --- Penguin

"Man has absolutely no ability to redeem himself or restore his relationship with ...[text shortened]... nguin, I appreciate your focus and honest question. Please clarify the "apparent contradiction".

Ah, so I take it that what you mean is that you do not believe there is absolutely nothing we can do. What you actually believe is that there was nothing we could do, but since Christ there is now one thing we can and in fact must do in order to save ourselves.

That certainly clears up the contradiction I saw in the original post: it was just badly written.

--- Penguin

Originally posted by Penguin
Ah, so I take it that what you mean is that you do [b]not believe there is absolutely nothing we can do. What you actually believe is that there was nothing we could do, but since Christ there is now one thing we can and in fact must do in order to save ourselves.

That certainly clears up the contradiction I saw in the original post: it was just badly written.

--- Penguin[/b]

Originally posted by Penguin
Ah, so I take it that what you mean is that you do not believe there is absolutely nothing we can do. What you actually believe is that there was nothing we could do, but since Christ there is now one thing we can and in fact must do in order to save ourselves.

That certainly clears up the contradiction I saw in the original post: it was just badly written.

--- Penguin
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3) "Total Depravity of Man: We believe that man is created in the image of God but as a result of Adam's original sin of disobedience in the garden of Eden, the entire human race receives a totally corrupt and depraved nature. Every member of the human race is born physically alive but spiritually dead meaning they are separated from God. This totally depraved state of man qualifies him for grace. Grace is all that God is free to do based solely on the merits of the Person and Work of Christ. Man has absolutely no ability to redeem himself or restore his relationship with God (Rom 3:22-23, 5:12-17; Eph 2:12)."

4) "Person and Work of Christ: We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, became a human being while maintaining His divine nature. He is undiminished deity and true humanity in one Person forever (John 1:14; 1 Tim. 3:16; Col. 1:15, 19; 2:9; 1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 1:3; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 2:14; 1 John 1:1-2; 4:2; 2 John 1:7). He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary to reveal God, fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law, redeem the entire human race, and resolve the ancient pre-historic war between God and the fallen angels by the total defeat of Satan. We believe that Jesus Christ fully accomplished redemption for the entire human race through His voluntary, substitutionary, spiritual death on the cross (Col. 1:13-14; Eph. 1:7).

The Father was propitiated by this death of the impeccable humanity of Christ in hypostatic union and therefore accepted the total outpouring of His Son's human soul unto death, which was the result of His substitutionary spiritual death (Isa 53:9-12; cf. 1 John. 2:2). Christ's death also reconciled the entire human race to God (2 Cor. 5:18-21; Eph. 2:14-16; Col. 1:22; 1 Pet. 2:24). The Father's acceptance of His death demonstrated by the literal physical resurrection of the humanity of Christ from the dead (Luke 1:35; Joh 1:1; Rom 3:24-26; 4:24-25; 1Cor 15:1-4; 2 Cor 5:21; Heb 9:22; 13:20-21; 1Pet 1:3-5, 18-20, 2:24, 3:18). Furthermore, we believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has been promoted to the highest rank position in the government of God, over the entire cosmos and has supreme power and authority over it since He is now seated at the right hand of the Father (Phlp. 2:6-11). At the right hand of the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ is the church age believer's Great High Priest, acting as both intercessor and advocate for believers.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the indisputable and acknowledged Head of the Church, which is His body. He will return to crush all the enemies of God who are rebellion against Him (Rom 8:34; Eph 1:19-23; Heb 7:25-27; 1 John 1:1-2). He has the authority to conduct the judgment of all unbelievers at the conclusion of human history (Rev. 20:11-15) as well as the evaluation of all church age believers (1 Cor. 3:11-15; 2 Cor. 5:10), and the evaluation of all regenerate Israel (Ezek. 20:37-38; Zech. 13:8-9; Mal. 3:2-3, 5; Matt. 25:1-30)."

6) "Salvation: We believe that eternal salvation is received by the sinner who makes the non-meritorious decision to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. Christ's accomplished redemption on the cross provided man's reconciliation to God. (John 3:15-16; 5:24; 6:40, 47; 20:31; Act 16:31; Rom 3:24-25; 5:11, 16; 2Cor 5:18-21; Eph 2:8-9)."
_____________________________________________

".... there is absolutely nothing we can do" ---Penguin. Correct:... to gain the approval of God. Our good works are as "filthy rags" compared to His Divine Righteousness. Since we are totally depraved and unable to "save ourselves", in eternity past God's Omniscience made total provision to reconcile mankind to Himself. Eternal Salvation and Personal Relationship with Him, sharing His Perfect Happiness, is offered as a gracious gift. Accept it or reject it... each of must make that call.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Apparently he did not believe that God would preserve the "inspired, inerrant and infallible" nature of the canon through their translation to Latin and subsequent renderings." -JS357

Any particular sentences or paragraphs relating to this observation?

Er, yes, I repeat:

"The Bible: We believe that the Bible, composed of 66 canonical books in their original languages, is the inspired, inerrant and infallible Word of God (Psa 119:89; 2Tim 3:16; 2Pet 1:20-21)."

Originally posted by JS357
Er, yes, I repeat:

"The Bible: We believe that the Bible, composed of 66 canonical books [b]in their original languages, is the inspired, inerrant and infallible Word of God (Psa 119:89; 2Tim 3:16; 2Pet 1:20-21)."[/b]

Originally posted by JS357
A remaining comment on ""The Bible: We believe that the Bible, composed of 66 canonical books in their original languages, is the inspired, inerrant and infallible Word of God (Psa 119:89; 2Tim 3:16; 2Pet 1:20-21)."

(emphasis added)

Apparently he did not believe that God would preserve the "inspired, inerrant and infallible" nature of the canon through their translation to Latin and subsequent renderings.

But I haven't looked into his Library about this. It makes little difference to me; it's just a curiosity in comparison with other religious opinions I'm accustomed to.
__________________________________________

Originally posted by JS357
Er, yes, I repeat:

"The Bible: We believe that the Bible, composed of 66 canonical books [b]in their original languages, is the inspired, inerrant and infallible Word of God (Psa 119:89; 2Tim 3:16; 2Pet 1:20-21)."
__________________________________

JS, the comment: "It makes little difference to me; it's just a curiosity in comparison with other religious opinions I'm accustomed to." suggested you weren't particularly interested in pursuing Pastor Wenstrom's in depth Canonicity study further. The two sections posted are an introduction; here's the link should you or anyone else care to read further:

The Apologists.... (next section)

http://www.wenstrom.org/downloads/written/doctrines/bibliolgy/canonicity.pdf

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by JS357
A remaining comment on ""The Bible: We believe that the Bible, composed of 66 canonical books [b]in their original languages, is the inspired, inerrant and infallible Word of God (Psa 119:89; 2Tim 3:16; 2Pet 1:20-21)."

(emphasis added)

Apparently he did not believe that God would preserve the "inspired, inerr ...[text shortened]... ] (next section)

http://www.wenstrom.org/downloads/written/doctrines/bibliolgy/canonicity.pdf[/b]

Thanks. I see a reassertion that the Bible in its original language is the literal word of god. (by search on the word "original" in what you referenced). So I take it I am correct in saying that he believes God did not preserve the accuracy of any translation. I am surprised he does not address this more directly. I would think it would be of some concern, given the lack of availability of the original texts. But I know there are entire denominations that don't put much emphasis on personally reading the Bible. His might be one of them.

Originally posted by JS357
Thanks. I see a reassertion that the Bible in its original language is the literal word of god. (by search on the word "original" in what you referenced). So I take it I am correct in saying that he believes God did not preserve the accuracy of any translation. I am surprised he does not address this more directly. I would think it would be of some concern, gi ...[text shortened]... inations that don't put much emphasis on personally reading the Bible. His might be one of them.

Originally posted by JS357
Thanks. I see a reassertion that the Bible in its original language is the literal word of god. (by search on the word "original" in what you referenced). So I take it I am correct in saying that he believes God did not preserve the accuracy of any translation. I am surprised he does not address this more directly. I would think it would be of some concern, given the lack of availability of the original texts. But I know there are entire denominations that don't put much emphasis on personally reading the Bible. His might be one of them.
_______________________________________

JS, I appreciate your interest. Pastor Wenstrom's teaching ministry is non-denominational. The conclusion: "So I take it I am correct in saying that he believes God did not preserve the accuracy of any translation. I am surprised he does not address this more directly. I would think it would be of some concern, given the lack of availability of the original texts." is to the best of knowledge inaccurate. In the interest of clarification, please consider an email or postal mail contact with him.

Mailing Address: Wenstrom Bible Ministries P.O. Box 112 Marion, Iowa 52302
Email: info@wenstrom.org and orders@wenstrom.org"

http://www.wenstrom.org/modules.php?name=StaticText&pagename=what_we_believe

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
It's pretty common for churches to spell out their beliefs on their website in order to allow people to make an informed decision when seeking out a church. Within Christianity there is a WIDE variety of beliefs, since the Bible is littered with conflicting/contradictory information. The beliefs in the first two posts are the beliefs of the following chur ...[text shortened]... rg/index.php
[/quote]

Evidently they aren't established enough to have a set meeting place.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
It's pretty common for churches to spell out their beliefs on their website in order to allow people to make an informed decision when seeking out a church. Within Christianity there is a WIDE variety of beliefs, since the Bible is littered with conflicting/contradictory information. The beliefs in the first two posts are the beliefs of the following church and, from what I gather, the beliefs of GB.

Wenstrom Bible Ministries is a non-denominational church, which teaches the Word of God verse by verse. The purpose of this church is to make sound doctrine available to believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. We believe the Bible to be the verbally inspired Word of God, the final authority for faith and life, inerrant in the original writings, infallible and God-breathed.

We are holding church service in the Marion Iowa area 4 days a week.

9AM CST Sunday
7PM CST Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday

If you are in the area and are interested in attending email or call for directions to our current meeting location.

http://www.wenstrom.org/index.php

"Evidently they aren't established enough to have a set meeting place." -ThinkOfOne

____________________________________

"Contents: Home...

"Wenstrom Bible Ministries is a non-denominational church, which teaches the Word of God verse by verse. The purpose of this church is to make sound doctrine available to believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. We believe the Bible to be the verbally inspired Word of God, the final authority for faith and life, inerrant in the original writings, infallible and God-breathed.

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 NASB

• Our Doctrinal Statement.
• Why We Don't Charge for Materials

We are holding church service in the Marion Iowa area 4 days a week.

9AM CST Sunday
7PM CST Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday

If you are in the area and are interested in attending email or call for directions to our current meeting location."

http://www.wenstrom.org/index.php

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by JS357
Thanks. I see a reassertion that the Bible in its original language is the literal word of god. (by search on the word "original" in what you referenced). So I take it I am correct in saying that he believes God did not preserve the accuracy of any translation. I am surprised he does not address this more directly. I w ...[text shortened]... rs@wenstrom.org"

http://www.wenstrom.org/modules.php?name=StaticText&pagename=what_we_believe

You say, "...please consider an email or postal mail contact with him."

He says, as you have quoted below, "The purpose of this church is to make sound doctrine available to believers in the Lord Jesus Christ."

So, no, GB, I won't.

Originally posted by JS357
You say, "...please consider an email or postal mail contact with him."

He says, as you have quoted below, "The purpose of this church is to make sound doctrine available to believers in the Lord Jesus Christ."

So, no, GB, I won't.

So the statement quoted adequately answers the question?