Originally posted by yoctobyte
[quote]I therefore do not believe in the existence of any gods [which makes me an atheist] and I also
go farther and believe in the lack of gods [which makes me a strong atheist] and indeed for
many claimed gods [such as the Judeo-Christian god] I would claim to know that those gods
do not exist [which makes me a gnostic atheist with respect for thos ...[text shortened]... of 'proof', I don't know that I have come across a claim that there is proof of no God. Thanks
I understand the position (what I would call the default position) of not believing in God for what you would call lack of 'proof', I don't know that I have come across a claim that there is proof of no God. Thanks
I would call it the default position too. 🙂 The position of lacking belief in any claim is always the default from which
you shouldn't move unless you are presented with sufficient evidence one way or another to justify doing so.
This is a topic I have covered before, but is a difficult one to do on an internet forum.
It's much much easier to argue for a lack of belief in gods, than it is to argue [for a belief in the lack of] gods.
Because the latter requires justification which is really hard to present on an internet forum.
The short version is this...
We know from our increasing scientific understanding of ourselves and the universe we inhabit that:
The universe in it's present form started ~13.8 billion years ago.
That our solar system formed in that universe ~4.5 billion years ago, with the Earth forming shortly
after that. And that this solar-system is but one of ~200~400 billion in this Galaxy and that this
galaxy is but one of a few hundred billion galaxies in the visible universe.
That life formed on Earth some few hundred million years after it's formation and then spend a
few billion years as simple celled life forms before complex life arose largely by evolution by natural
selection.
That complex life existed for many hundreds of millions of years in a myriad different forms before
the first humans evolved.
That creatures we would recognise as modern day humans existed for a few hundred thousand years
at least before we had the beginnings of civilisation form. And that it then took ~10,000 years to get
to the present [a cosmic blink of the eye].
We know that our minds, our conciousness is a product of the physical workings of our brains, and that
these brains and these capabilities slowly evolved over those hundreds of millions of years that complex
life has existed. And that we have no souls or spirits animating us beyond the physical workings of the
matter that makes us and the natural forces that act on that matter.
We know that these brains while capable of rational thinking are beset by biases and heuristics and modes
of thought that are not logical or rational and lead to making predictable mistakes, mistakes that lead to
magical thinking and anthropomorphizing forces and creatures and that this coupled with our social and
storytelling nature naturally leads over time to the creation of myths and legends and spirits and ghosts and
gods and religions.
We can track through history and indeed prehistory [as well as by studying cultures and civilisations still
around today] the development of such ideas and the slow formation of different religions. We can see
them getting invented through time. And their borrowing ideas and themes from each other, and merging
and splitting.
We can analyse those religions and determine that the beliefs are not true, and/or contradictory, and/or
not supported by evidence or reason.
And we have discovered probability theory that enables us to determine how likely particular proposed
explanations are a-priori and given the available evidence.
Taken all together, what we have is solid evidence we came to be via natural and non-sentient processes
in a universe that has either existed in one form or another for eternity, or came about itself through natural
and non-sentient processes.
We have solid evidence that we have no souls or spirit, and that there is consequently no such thing as an
afterlife of any kind.
We have solid evidence for mankind inventing religions and supernatural beliefs for completely understandable
psychological reasons. And evidence that the claims of these mutually contradictory [and indeed frequently
internally contradictory] religions and superstitions are in fact wrong, and not just unsubstantiated.
And we can determine that the probability of any god existing and being the 'cause' of the universe and ourselves
[let alone there being one that guards an afterlife] is so tiny a-priori and given the evidence that it's not reasonable
to believe it to be true and is indeed reasonable to believe [or even claim to know] that it's not true.
Basically the whole of science, and the world view it has built and is building, contradicts and acts as evidence
against the claims of religions. So the really short answer is 'because science and Bayesian probability theory'.
I recognise that this isn't convincing as it requires years of study/education to get all the necessary theory and
evidence and you have to accept the premises of scientific skepticism and rationality on top of that before you
could find this argument convincing. That doesn't mean it's wrong, just not particularly effective at changing peoples
minds.
EDIT: fixed typo.
Why are you are an atheist
07 May '16 13:55
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