08 May 16
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadDo you have a biological father?
You thought wrong.
[b]Oh well. I need to wait for atheism to overtake my mind while I am blissfully unaware of it.
Do you have a biological father?
Did you take a DNA test to prove he was your biological father?
Did you make a wilful, cognitive, rational decision to believe he was your father? Could you decide tomorrow to believe he is not?[/b]
Yes.
Did you take a DNA test to prove he was your biological father?
Nope.
Did you make a wilful, cognitive, rational decision to believe he was your father?
Uuuhhm. It's hard to say, do you mean to say the moment I was born or later on in life when I could think about what a father is and what it means to be a father?
Could you decide tomorrow to believe he is not?
Uhhhm, if my mom told me I looked a lot like the milkman I could get a DNA test done and base my beliefs on the results of the DNA test.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkAt any time whatsoever, did you make a decision to believe he was your biological father?
Uuuhhm. It's hard to say, do you mean to say the moment I was born or later on in life when I could think about what a father is and what it means to be a father?
Uhhhm, if my mom told me I looked a lot like the milkman I could get a DNA test done and base my beliefs on the results of the DNA test.
I notice you didn't answer either question, but instead tried to dodge them. Why did you say 'base my beliefs on' rather than 'decide to believe'?
After the DNA test would you 'decide to believe' whatever it told you?
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou say you are born atheist, because you are fallaciously equating ignorance with lack of belief. Infants are born without knowledge about cars, but that has no bearing on the validity of cars whatsoever.
At any time whatsoever, did you make a decision to believe he was your biological father?
[b]Uhhhm, if my mom told me I looked a lot like the milkman I could get a DNA test done and base my beliefs on the results of the DNA test.
I notice you didn't answer either question, but instead tried to dodge them. Why did you say 'base my beliefs on' rathe ...[text shortened]... han 'decide to believe'?
After the DNA test would you 'decide to believe' whatever it told you?[/b]
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkAtheism is an absence of belief in God. Babies are born with an absence of belief in God. They may become theists later on and, of course, many do. You trying to play a word game with the word "ignorant" is not going to alter these simple realities. 😉
They are born ignorant. And if you insist that they are born atheist because of their ignorance then you are actually saying atheists are ignorant.
Originally posted by apathistAtheism can be based upon reason - but that does not mean someone has to have a reason to be an atheist.
Your questions confirm his point, tw. Atheism is a position based on reason. (That's why babies are not atheists, btw.)
A baby does not have to reason to be an atheist.
It does not have to reason that not believing in a god is rational if it has no concept of gods.
09 May 16
Originally posted by FMFThe problem with defining atheism as simply “the lack of belief in God” is that there are already another group of people who fall under that definition: agnostics. So what's the difference between an atheist and an agnostic then?
Atheism is an absence of belief in God. Babies are born with an absence of belief in God. They may become theists later on and, of course, many do. You trying to play a word game with the word "ignorant" is not going to alter these simple realities. 😉
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Originally posted by FetchmyjunkActually the problem is in your definition of agnostic.
The problem with defining atheism as simply “the lack of belief in God” is that there are already another group of people who fall under that definition: agnostics. So what's the difference between an atheist and an agnostic then?
Animals lack belief in God. Are they atheistic? Should we include atheists, infants, plants, rocks, water, and air in the category of atheism since they, too, lack belief in God?
In my opinion, lack of belief is really an attempt to avoid facing and defending the problems in your position. You see, if you say you have no position by saying you lack belief, then your position is not open to any scrutiny.
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Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk@Googlefudge has an encyclopedic explanation in his profile.
So what's the difference between an atheist and an agnostic then?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI already answered that earlier in the thread. Interesting that you repeat it like you didn't read the answer.
Animals lack belief in God. Are they atheistic? Should we include atheists, infants, plants, rocks, water, and air in the category of atheism since they, too, lack belief in God?
An agnostic is someone who believes it is impossible to know whether God exists. There are agnostic theists and agnostic atheists.
In my opinion, lack of belief is really an attempt to avoid facing and defending the problems in your position.
You are wrong. I have no problem whatsoever defending my position and it is notable that instead of pointing out any problems you see in my position you wish to change the definition of a word.
You see, if you say you have no position by saying you lack belief, then your position is not open to any scrutiny.
And by trying to change the definition you wish to use strawman arguments by attacking something I don't believe.
Definitions don't change reality and definitions are never 'right' or 'wrong'. You may make up your own definition of 'atheist' just don't expect to communicate very well with it when everyone else has a different definition. It is better to stick to standard definitions that everyone agrees on and that make sense. If we were to use your definition then we would need another word to use for babies (and no, agnostic isn't it, that has already been taken and means something altogether different). So lets say you use the word 'unbeliever'. Then your thread title might ask when did stop being an unbeliever and become atheist? Some people will say they are still unbelievers and don't fit your definition of atheist. You will have achieved nothing with your silly word games.