Originally posted by josephw
To be concise, are you saying the scripture teaches that the Father became the Son? That because the Word of God reveals that the Godhead is three distinct persons, yet God is one, that we can then say with scriptural authority what the scriptures don't actually say, namely, that the Father, for all intents and purposes hung on the cross and was "made sin" for us?
Don't you think that that is taking it a bit too far? Don't you think that there is a reason for the distinctions between the revealed members of the Godhead for purposes of the functions of the will of God?
Yes, the distinctions between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are revealed. We do not believe that the Father suffered on the cross which is called Patripassionism, a teaching that arose in the 3rd century. It means "Father suffered".
The Bible never says that the Father suffered at crucifixion. But with crucifixion as well as incarnation all Three of the Trinity were
involved. And though certain actions are attributed particularly to one of the three of the Trinity, the involvement always includes all Three.
Though it never says that the
Father suffered, it does say that
"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself " (2 Cor. 5:18-19) . The Father was involved and not separate in this operation.
Though it never says that the
Father shed blood, it does say that the church was
"purchased with His [God's] own blood" (Acts 20:28).
The Father was involved in the redemptive death of the Son.
This ever present involvement of the other Two of the Three in each step and stage of God's salvific operation makes separation impossible. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. It does not say one third of God was in Christ. So the Father as God was in Christ reconciling the world to God though distinction is made as to who suffered.
The entire Triune God is involved always in each stage of God's process even though certain actions are particularly ascribed to one of the Three distinctly.
Take for example again His death -
" ... Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself to God ..." (Hebrews 9:11)
Christ the Son, God the Father, and the eternal Spirit are all involved in this redemptive act. Yet it only attributes the death to the Son and not the Father and the Spirit.
Some assume that coinherence and involvment of Three in every operation of the Triune God has to mean Patripassianism. But we Christians should adhere to the biblical statements showing an internal coinherence and co-involvement of Father - Son- and Holy Spirit and also recognize distinction also spoken of.
That Christ cried of God forsaking Him has to reveal distinction between Father and Son -
In Christ’s crucifixion God forsook Him economically (Matt. 27:45-46), but as the divine only begotten Son of God, He was still coinhering with the Father and the Spirit essentially. In this sense, what happened in the crucifixion of Christ is truly a mystery, the depths of which we cannot fully penetrate; we can only affirm what the Bible affirms.
God, not one third of God, but God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
Concerning the Triune God’s operation in accomplishing redemption, Witness Lee said:
An eternal redemption was accomplished by the blood of the Son of God through the eternal Spirit (Heb. 9:12, 14; 1 John 1:7). The blood He shed on the cross was not only the blood of Jesus the Man, but also of the Son of God. First John 1:7 tells us that the blood of Jesus the Son of God cleanses us from all sin. The blood of Jesus the Man qualifies His redemption for us as men. He was a genuine man who died for us and shed genuine blood for us. But the efficacy of His redemption has to be secured by His divinity and it has been secured for eternity by Him as the Son of God. Therefore, His redemption is the eternal redemption (Heb. 9:12) because this redemption was accomplished not only by the blood of Jesus the Man but also by the blood of Jesus the Son of God, which the Apostle Paul even called "God’s own blood" (Acts 20:28). This is marvelous!12
The mutual coinherence of the Three of the Triune God is eternal. Though there is distinction in what we might call "personality" and distinction in action, all of the Trinity is always involved in any action of any one of Them. So separation is impossible to conceive.
Thomas F. Torrance wrote:
The Son and the Father were one and not divided, each dwelling in the other, even in that ‘hour and power of darkness’ when Jesus was smitten of God and afflicted and pierced for our transgressions.14
It is very mysterious. It is difficult to utter or even compare with ANY physical reality.
Did the Son separate from the Father in being incarnate? Scripture says the sent one came from with the Father. He came from the Father bringing the Father with Him.
John 8:16 - "But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, for I am not alone, but I and the Father who sent Me."
Verse 29 - "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him."
John 16:32 - "If God has been glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself, and He will glorify Him immediately."
Father and Son are involved in every action. Yet actions are particularly atttributed to perhaps One and not the other.
So while we would not say that the God who cannot die died, and the divine Father who cannot suffer suffered, we maintain that the Father was coinhering the Son at death being God reconciling the world to Himself.
It is not easy. Who raised Jesus from the dead ?
On one hand God the Father raised Him from the dead
(Acts 2:24; 32, 10:40; Gal. 1:1) .
But the Son is also said to have raised Himself up
(John 2:19; Acts 10:41; 1 Thess. 4:14)
But the Holy Spirit was also involved in the resurrection of the Son
(Rom. 1:4; 1 Pet. 3:18)
We see Christ saying that He is departing the world to go to the Father.
" ... I am going to the Father and you no longer behold Me." (John 16:10)
" ... I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" (John 14:28)
Yet the Word who was God
(John 1:1) surely did not cease to be God when He died upon the cross.
Do you believe that the Word Who became flesh, and was with God, and WAS God, upon the cross was for that moment no longer God? I do not believe that He was no longer God when He cried at that His God had forsaken Him.
In operation, in process of salvation, certain acts are attribruted at times only to One of the Three of the Godhead. Yet all three are involved in every action. At not time is there the action of one that does not involve the working of the other two.
As a man, the eternal Son of God, who is the embodiment of the fullness of the Godhead, passed through human living, was crucified, entered into resurrection, and was exalted to be Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36). In each of these stages of His existence in humanity, the Son of God was still coinhering with the Father and the Spirit; at no time was He separate from Them. To claim otherwise would be to claim that the essential nature of God changed. That would be a great heresy.
Two very weighty questions there, one very brief reply. More must be said here latter.