Debates
35d
@sh76 saidthen if Jordan and Egypt don't want it, why should Israel not build on it?
Agree with everything, except how do you define "Palestinian land"?
It can't be "land in Palestine" because there was never an independent country called Palestine. If you mean all land, even empty land, that belonged to Jordan or Egypt before the '67 war, then if Jordan and Egypt don't want it, why should Israel not build on it?
Israel uses the Absentee Property Law to claim the lands it forced the Palestinians to abandon in the 1948 and 1967 wars. I find these tactics to be (at best) underhanded, and (at worst) illegal and deeply provocative. The bottom line here is there are many sites within Israel to build on. Put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians. Is this something you'd consider "the right thing to do?"
@spruce112358 saidThis appears to be an article by Bruce Basson, on Nov 11, 2023 in Post News. Are you that person, or did you just copy and paste the mans work?
On Nov 9th, 1917, Britain gave European Zionists permission to set up a colony in Palestine. Naturally, none of the people living in Palestine at the time were asked if they wanted to be colonized.
Over the next 31 years, migrants arriving mostly from Poland and Russia but also the rest of Europe, America and elsewhere caused tensions to rise in Palestine. Finally, in ...[text shortened]... see what happens next.
The end of the last gasp of colonialism in human history is long overdue.
Anyway, whether you like it or not, prior to the League of Nations being set up in 1920 or thereabouts, land and countries were taken by conquest / war. It was a common practice. The British, French, Dutch etc all sailed around the world taking over areas that were easy targets. The British took Palestine from the Ottoman Empire. So rightfully by the laws existing at that time, it belonged to them. In those days anyone could have bought property in Palestine. The Jews bought large chunks of land either from the British or from prior land owners.
Your failiure is that you are trying to apply certain aspects of international law in force now to 100 years ago. That is nonsense.
The other piece of nonsense is this:
...Finally, in 1948 a full-scale ethnic cleansing was carried out in which over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were moved out of Jewish sectors (i.e. the Nakba).
The truth is in 1948 through a UN approved partition plan, the British divided their land into two portions. The Jews accepted it, whiile the Arabs said no partition is possible. The war started. It was a war, in which the Arabs lost. They fled because of the war THEY STARTED. To call it ethnic cleansing is just a plain lie.
The rest of it mostly sensational nonsensical drama. The Palestinians do not want a two state solution. They want full control of all the land of Palestine. Sadly for them that will never happen.
34d
@rajk999 saidLuke 22:70
This appears to be an article by Bruce Basson, on Nov 11, 2023 in Post News. Are you that person, or did you just copy and paste the mans work?
Anyway, whether you like it or not, prior to the League of Nations being set up in 1920 or thereabouts, land and countries were taken by conquest / war. It was a common practice. The British, French, Dutch etc all sailed around th ...[text shortened]... lution. They want full control of all the land of Palestine. Sadly for them that will never happen.
@spruce112358 saidThen said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am. (Luke 22:70 KJV)
Luke 22:70
So you are the Son of God. OK so what? Is that justification for the lies and misinformation you posted?
@spruce112358 saidI got ears... thanks for letting me know.
LOL. Yes. He who has ears, let him hear. 🙂
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(Matthew 24:24 KJV)
@rajk999 said“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
I got ears... thanks for letting me know.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(Matthew 24:24 KJV)
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!”
― William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice
34d
1 edit
@sh76 saidBefore 1776 there was no independent nation state called America but America was still a well defined country. Not a State or a Nation but it was a Country i.e. a physical location.
Agree with everything, except how do you define "Palestinian land"?
It can't be "land in Palestine" because there was never an independent country called Palestine. If you mean all land, even empty land, that belonged to Jordan or Egypt before the '67 war, then if Jordan and Egypt don't want it, why should Israel not build on it?
Do the Palestinian territories have well defined borders? Yes. Yes they do.
Do the Palestinian territories have an own government? Yes. Yes they do.
Are the Palestinian territories internationally recognised. Yes. Yes they are.
So, it is perfectly acceptable to talk about Palestine and the Palestinian people. Whether Mott and Breitbar thinks it’s a bloody country or not, is neither here nor there.
Have senior Israeli politicans (including Netenyahoo) said they don’t want a 2-state solution? Yes. Yes they have.
Have senior Israeli politicians (including Netenyahoo) said that Palestians will not be welcome in Israel? Yes. Yes they have.
Does Israel allow Palestinians in excile to return to their place of birth? No. No it doesn’t.
Has Israel passed laws allowing Israeli citizens to build settlements on internationally recognised Palestinian land? Yes. Yes it has.
Does all this amount to ethnic cleansing?
Yes. Yes it does.
The international court has postponed judgement on whether the Israeli attack on Gaza is a genocide, but, by definition, the motivations behind Israeli policies are aimed at ethnically cleansing Palestine and grabbing the land for themselves.
@mott-the-hoople saidyeah it was just empty land. someone fenced it off and it just awaited jewish settlers.
“Zionists permission to set up a colony in Palestine.”
Ummm…there has never been a “palestine”
kind of like there weren't people in the americas before the europeans settled it.
@rajk999 saidI think that IS the way to think about this problem.
prior to the League of Nations being set up in 1920 or thereabouts, land and countries were taken by conquest / war. It was a common practice. The British, French, Dutch etc all sailed around the world taking over areas that were easy targets. The British took Palestine from the Ottoman Empire. So rightfully by the laws existing at that time, it belonged to them. In those ...[text shortened]... ying to apply certain aspects of international law in force now to 100 years ago. That is nonsense.
Colonizing and migrating like this, setting up shop and "pushing" the previous folks out of the way, is an old practice that (thankfully) the world no longer wants to tolerate.
What was accepted before (never "right", but accepted), is no longer accepted.
We ain't like this no more. And THIS attempt needs to be the last time humanity ever does this.
34d
@spruce112358 saidSo basically this then:
Negotiating hasn't worked and probably never could work.
A solution, if it comes, will only come from the outside and will be imposed with overwhelming military force, much to the dismay of both sides.
But, on a positive note, that will end the conflict. Finally.
34d
@sleepyguy saidHaha! ST:TOS FTW!
So basically this then:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogntwtcYq2I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPcrNVCw7mc
Yes, basically.
@spruce112358 saidColonization died back in the 20s. It was put to rest by the 1960s when the last of the British colonies got independence. Any country now that does not secede, means that they see some tangible benefit to being part of the British [or some other] Empire.
I think that IS the way to think about this problem.
Colonizing and migrating like this, setting up shop and "pushing" the previous folks out of the way, is an old practice that (thankfully) the world no longer wants to tolerate.
What was accepted before (never "right", but accepted), is no longer accepted.
We ain't like this no more. And THIS attempt needs to be the last time humanity ever does this.
So what does this have to do with Israel and Gaza? The Arabs back in 1947 were offered a 2-state solution and they refused. They have refused all peace deals since. They have instead dug in their heels and resorted to acts of terrorism like bombing busses of Jewish school children, crowded stores, they murdered Olympic athletes in Munich, hijacked a plane load of Jews to Entebbe. There is a long list of acts of terrorism over the decades since 1948.
Why have they not set up their own government?
33d
@spruce112358 saidWhat makes you think the Zionists required British permission to move to Israel?
On Nov 9th, 1917, Britain gave European Zionists permission to set up a colony in Palestine. Naturally, none of the people living in Palestine at the time were asked if they wanted to be colonized.