Originally posted by PacifiqueWith a little reseach I discovered this 3...Bb4 that looked to me like a Nimzo-Indian Defense, which tries to pin the Knight that is not there and instead checks the king with little effect, has been given a name - the Bogo-Indian Defense. This is what Wikipedia says about it.
Speaking on ignorant claims about "bad" 4...c5 - here is today`s game from Tata Steel:
[pgn][Event "75th Tata Steel Chess Group A"] [Site "Wijk aan Zee"] [Date "2013.01.17"] [Round "5"] [White "L'Ami, Erwin"] [Black "Wang, Hao"] [Result "0-1"] [ECO "E11"] [WhiteElo "2627"] [BlackElo "2752"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Bb4+ 4. Bd2 c5 5. Bxb4 cxb4 6. g3 O-O ...[text shortened]... 3 31. Rd8 g6 32. Rxe8+ Kg7 33. Bd3 Rd7 34. Bb1 Rd1+ 35. Nxd1 c2 0-1[/pgn]
"3.Nf3 is often played instead as a way of avoiding the Nimzo-Indian Defence (which would follow after 3.Nc3 Bb4). After 3.Nf3, Black usually plays 3...b6 (the Queen's Indian Defence) or 3...d5 (leading to the Queen's Gambit Declined), but can instead play 3...Bb4+, the Bogo-Indian, named after Efim Bogoljubov. This opening is not as popular as the Queen's Indian, but is seen occasionally at all levels.
White has three viable moves to meet the check. 4.Nc3 is a transposition to the Kasparov Variation of the Nimzo-Indian, therefore the main independent variations are 4.Bd2 and 4.Nbd2.
4.Bd2 is the most common line, the bishop on b4 is now threatened and Black needs to decide what to do about it.
4...Bxd2+ the simplest line, not particularly popular, but has been played frequently by the Swedish grandmaster Ulf Andersson, often as a drawing line.
4...Qe7 This is called Nimzovich variation, defending the bishop, and deferring the decision of what to do until later is the most common.
4...a5 grabbing space on the queenside at the cost of structural weaknesses was tried by David Bronstein.
4...c5 is a more modern move. However, after 5.Bxb4 cxb4, Black's pawns are doubled, and a pawn has been pulled away from the centre, but the b4 pawn can also be annoying for White since it takes the c3-square away from the knight. In fact, one of White's major alternatives is 6.a3, trading off this pawn at once.
4...Be7 is also possible; Black benefits from losing a tempo since the white bishop is misplaced at d2. The line is somewhat passive, but solid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogo-Indian_Defence
Perhaps it is not quite as bad as I thought it was. But in the game you posted, white did not play 6.a3 as is indicated in the wikipedia article.
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18 Jan 13
"Perhaps it is not quite as bad as I thought it was. But in the game you posted, white did not play 6.a3 as is indicated in the wikipedia article."
Of course not - I've been playing Bogo-Indian for 30 years. BTW white does not have to play a3 to force the exchange of bishops. Generally, white fianchettos the kingside bishop and after castling black needs to make the exchange.
Personally, after whites Bd2 I like Qe7 for black. Although, the more modern Be7 is interesting.
Originally posted by kbear1kI think you are missing the point. White is able to exchange off a bishop file pawn for a rook file pawn immediately by 6.a3. In the orignal posted game this did not happen until move 9 after the fianchetto on the kingside. But look what happened in this last game in which black wins.
"Perhaps it is not quite as bad as I thought it was. But in the game you posted, white did not play 6.a3 as is indicated in the wikipedia article."
Of course not - I've been playing Bogo-Indian for 30 years. BTW white does not have to play a3 to force the exchange of bishops. Generally, white fianchettos the kingside bishop and after castling black needs ...[text shortened]... sonally, after whites Bd2 I like Qe7 for black. Although, the more modern Be7 is interesting.
Well, I agree that Qe7 and Be7 look better than c5 for black.
Originally posted by PacifiqueBlack won this game because he was a better player than white and not because the defensive line was that good. 😏
Speaking on ignorant claims about "bad" 4...c5 - here is today`s game from Tata Steel:
[pgn][Event "75th Tata Steel Chess Group A"] [Site "Wijk aan Zee"] [Date "2013.01.17"] [Round "5"] [White "L'Ami, Erwin"] [Black "Wang, Hao"] [Result "0-1"] [ECO "E11"] [WhiteElo "2627"] [BlackElo "2752"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Bb4+ 4. Bd2 c5 5. Bxb4 cxb4 6. g3 O-O ...[text shortened]... 3 31. Rd8 g6 32. Rxe8+ Kg7 33. Bd3 Rd7 34. Bb1 Rd1+ 35. Nxd1 c2 0-1[/pgn]
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by RJHindsProbably because 2600+ players don`t read wikipedia. 😀
With a little reseach I discovered this 3...Bb4 that looked to me like a Nimzo-Indian Defense, which tries to pin the Knight that is not there and instead checks the king with little effect, has been given a name - the Bogo-Indian Defense. This is what Wikipedia says about it.
"3.Nf3 is often played instead as a way of avoiding the Nimzo-Indian Defence (w ...[text shortened]... in the game you posted, white did not play 6.a3 as is indicated in the wikipedia article.
18 Jan 13
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsIt`s not easy for cheating patzers like you to understand that positional players like Wang Hao don`t play the crap in such a competitions.
Black won this game because he was a better player than white and not because the defensive line was that good. 😏
Originally posted by PacifiqueYes it is. 😏
It`s not easy for cheating patzers like you to understand that positional players like Wang Hao don`t play the crap in such a competitions.
Tony Miles played crap and still beat world Champion Karpov with it.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1068157
1.e4 a6 2.d4 b5 3.Nf3 Bb7 4.Bd3 Nf6 5.Qe2 e6 6.a4 c5 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.Nbd2 b4 9.e5 Nd5 10.Ne4 Be7 11.0-0 Nc6 12.Bd2 Qc7 13.c4 bxc3 14.Nxc3 Nxc3 15.Bxc3 Nb4 16.Bxb4 Bxb4 17.Rac1 Qb6 18.Be4 0-0!? 19.Ng5 h6 20.Bh7+ Kh8 21.Bb1 Be7 22.Ne4 Rac8 23.Qd3 Rxc1 24.Rxc1 Qxb2 25.Re1 Qxe5 26.Qxd7 Bb4 27.Re3 Qd5 28.Qxd5 Bxd5 29.Nc3 Rc8 30.Ne2 g5 31.h4 Kg7 32.hxg5 hxg5 33.Bd3 a5 34.Rg3 Kf6 35.Rg4 Bd6 36.Kf1 Be5 37.Ke1 Rh8 38.f4 gxf4 39.Nxf4 Bc6 40.Ne2 Rh1+ 41.Kd2 Rh2 42.g3 Bf3 43.Rg8 Rg2 44.Ke1 Bxe2 45.Bxe2 Rxg3 46.Ra8 Bc7 0–1
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by RJHindsI understand your inability to understand what "positional player" means. To say nothing on fact that Wang Hao does not play unorthodox openings (not in such a high level at least).
Yes it is. 😏
Tony Miles played crap and still beat world Champion Karpov with it.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1068157
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by RJHindsDo you still enjoy your miserable existence in this forum where everyone knows that you are stupid patzer who pretends to look like being able to reach 2200 here without engine asisstance? Where almost everyone despises you due to your moronic statements about chess & religion? Where you are called Silicon Ron?
Who cares what you can understand?
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by PacifiqueI love it. 😏
Do you still enjoy your miserable existence in this forum where everyone knows that you are stupid patzer who pretends to look like being able to reach 2200 here without engine asisstance? Where almost everyone despises you due to your moronic statements about chess & religion? Where you are called Silicon Ron?