@moonbus saidYou are willfully blind, there is an arrangement within our genetic code that identifies all manner of things from who you are personally, to sections that show us all manner of particular parts of our makeup. A mountain of evidence hidden from you for a speck of doubt best describes you.
There is no meaning or information in DNA. It’s just chemicals. You’re anthropomorphizing again. Humans represent the different chemicals by attaching letters to them, but that is arbitrary. We could just as well have attached colors or musical notes to them; it’s not really there in the chemistry, it’s just an arbitrary classification schema we impose on it. If we attach mus ...[text shortened]... ove a Mind composed it. It’s still just chemicals, no mind made them assemble in just that ‘melody’.
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@kellyjay saidAnother good dodge KellyJay.
You are willfully blind, there is an arrangement within our genetic code that identifies all manner of things from who you are personally, to sections that show us all manner of particular parts of our makeup. A mountain of evidence hidden from you for a speck of doubt best describes you.
https://youtu.be/X_tYrnv_o6A
But I think Moonbus is aware of what DNA does. Unfortunately you’ve wasted a couple of minutes writing your post, as that wasn’t what he was referring to.
But of course you already knew that.
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@kellyjay saidYes, of course, it’s all in there, my eye color and whether I’ll go bald. But it’s just chemicals, no Hand Of God is present in DNA.
You are willfully blind, there is an arrangement within our genetic code that identifies all manner of things from who you are personally, to sections that show us all manner of particular parts of our makeup. A mountain of evidence hidden from you for a speck of doubt best describes you.
https://youtu.be/X_tYrnv_o6A
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@KellyJay
You are wilfully projecting human metaphors into a reality which is mute, meaningless, and mindless.
It is not literally true that information is encoded in DNA. Not the way information IS literally encoded in an IBM punch card. To say that information is encoded in DNA is a metaphor, a figure of speech, an artificial mode of representation we have imposed onto a chemical reaction which is, in itself, mute, meaningless and mindless. We think of it as similar to an IBM punch card, but this is just a crutch we use to try to understand it. It's not really like that. One could just as well associate musical notes with the chemicals involved in DNA, and one could then whistle the tune, but it would not be literally true that a Grand Mind had made DNA to play this melody. It's just a pattern we happen to impose on a reality which is, in itself, mute, meaningless, and mindless.
Neither is DNA a recipe for baking a cake; neither is DNA a blueprint for building a house. These are all human metaphors, not what's really there in nature. Just like seeing retro-grade motions in the planets: you think you see it there, but it's not really happening, it's an illusion triggered by imposing a human pattern on nature.
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@sonhouse saidIs there something in that wiki page which supports what you said about the genesis creation account coming from Egyptian sources?
@divegeester
Here is one link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_creation_narrative
@kellyjay saidImagine someone's discovering a '?' in deep space, and saying "the universe is asking us a question!, and now we have to find the answer." And now imagine someone's saying, "I know the answer! It's ...." (42, or whatever). There you have Prof. Tour in a nutshell. He has mistakenly interpreted a mind and a meaning into something which is mindless and meaningless. And you know what? The Webb telescope really has discovered something in deep space which looks like a '?'
You are willfully blind, there is an arrangement within our genetic code that identifies all manner of things from who you are personally, to sections that show us all manner of particular parts of our makeup. A mountain of evidence hidden from you for a speck of doubt best describes you.
https://youtu.be/X_tYrnv_o6A
Here, take a look yourself:
https://www.space.com/james-webb-space-telescope-question-mark-galaxy-photo
To us it looks like a '?', a symbol with a meaning; but really it isn't a symbol with a meaning. Really, what it is is hot gas. Lots and lots of hot gas. Yes, it does have a raw shape, a swirl with a blob below it, but the raw shape is utterly without meaning. It only looks like a question mark to us, and only because we happen to have that particular symbol in our character set. It would not have looked like a question mark to the ancient Greeks, because they didn't have that particular symbol. The ancient Greeks looked at the sky and saw different patterns: Orion and so on. We think that's silly superstition now, but Prof. Tour is making the very same mistake, seeing patterns which aren't really there.
Is someone "willfully blind" not to see a question mark there? Yes and no. There really is a raw shape there, that is true, but it really isn't a question mark, that is a human pattern we have imposed upon a reality which itself meaningless. The ancient Greeks might have said we are wilfully blind not to see their gods and heroes in the constellations (Orion and so on).
Prof. Tour has made just this same kind of mistake with cells and DNA. He has looked at cells and DNA and 'seen' something that reminds him of something familiar, something which looks, to him, like 'information', 'following instructions', 'a recipe', 'a blueprint', 'error checking'. And because he has projected these meanings into a cell, into DNA, he then thinks there must be a MIND which put them there. But it's a blunder. It's like 'seeing' a question mark in deep space and thinking the universe is asking us a question, and now we have to find the answer.
The reality is that there is not a question mark in space, it's just hot gas; and there is no information in a cell or in DNA, it's just chemicals.
@moonbus saidLetters in a book don't put the author present in the book, any more than the arraignment of the chemicals in DNA God, but the arrangement of both the chemicals to produce form and function show an author just as much as the words present in the arrangement letters in a book. Neither the chemicals nor the letters get into a meaningful arrangement by chance and necessity.
Yes, of course, it’s all in there, my eye color and whether I’ll go bald. But it’s just chemicals, no Hand Of God is present in DNA.
@moonbus saidI am willfully speaking about life and using terms that are understandable to most people, mind and mindlessness are terms that carry meaning that it seems you want to nullify at all costs. They are not mute, the arrangements that produce form and function are either done on purpose which requires a mind, or not which is mindlessness there are no other options.
@KellyJay
You are wilfully projecting human metaphors into a reality which is mute, meaningless, and mindless.
It is not literally true that information is encoded in DNA. Not the way information IS literally encoded in an IBM punch card. To say that information is encoded in DNA is a metaphor, a figure of speech, an artificial mode of representation we have imposed on ...[text shortened]... re, but it's not really happening, it's an illusion triggered by imposing a human pattern on nature.
We see the same principles in both DNA and computer programming, the activity in our computer code being played out in DNA is recognizable to us as the terms mind and mindlessness are. It is the types of patterns we see and recognize when we see or hear languages we don't understand, or signals being broadcast through different mediums. It takes a mind to recognize one, but if you are simply going to refuse to acknowledge it, that takes a conscious effort on your part. A mountain of evidence is dismissed by closing one's eyes suppressing the truth. If prime numbers were heard being broadcast from space would you think mindlessness a lucky happenstance some natural process would and could do that? Yet much more complexity in play you do ignore.
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@divegeester
There are references to 7 day creations but not the one I wanted. Trying to find it.
Here is one:
https://classroom.synonym.com/the-similarities-between-judaism-early-egyptian-religion-12087874.html
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@sonhouse saidI don’t think you will be able to.
@divegeester
There are references to 7 day creations but not the one I wanted. Trying to find it.