A life saved from the madness

Originally posted by KellyJay
If minor comes in with child, do they find the guy who did it? I don't know
what you mean when you say they check for abuse. Do they find the father
and see if he is an adult? Do they feel that causing a young girl to become
with child by an adult, NOT abuse? Are you saying if she wasn't forced than
it is okay no matter who did it?
Kelly

if the hospital suspect that the father is above the age of consent then the police will be informed. the police will attempt to prosecute the father.

hospital sexual health workers will interview underage girls and ask them a lot of question to make sure they understand the situation. if the girl gives them any indication abuse is involved the hospital can contact social services and the police.

they anybody under the age of 16 becoming pregnant by a man over the age of 16 as an act of abuse. the man can be prosecuted and put on the sex offenders register, even if it was consensual.

i made no reference to my opinion of consensual age and sex. i was asking you how you define 'abuse' when it comes to children. what do you think 'child abuse' is?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Yes, you're right, but this context spans from the first posting in this thread, the link included.

And, of course, it was a bit provocative, just to heat up the discussion.

She survived, despite religion, what a joy! Right?
(Even that her parents weren't equally happy...)

Finally the truth comes out. Thanks.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Nope, murder is a crime. You are seriously twisting this into something
I've not said. If you want to follow devils, and play in that world go for it.
Kelly

You haven't really said anything though have you.

Do you think the authorities were right to prevent the parents allowing their daughter to die?

It's a simple question that you seem to want to wrap up in layers of what ifs and dubious biblical caveats.

Originally posted by divegeester
You haven't really said anything though have you.

Do you think the authorities were right to prevent the parents allowing their daughter to die?

It's a simple question that you seem to want to wrap up in layers of what ifs and dubious biblical caveats.

Right, is what God lays out before us. Our laws are what we lay out before
us. If you wish to tell me that you feel comfortable causing someone else
to sin, than do so. I don't feel that way.

With our legal system they did what they did, and those that acted I'm
quite sure did it with all the best intentions. I'm also glad about the
results too by the way. Saying that, I still would not forced someone to
sin.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Right, is what God lays out before us. Our laws are what we lay out before
us. If you wish to tell me that you feel comfortable causing someone else
to sin, than do so. I don't feel that way.

With our legal system they did what they did, and those that acted I'm
quite sure did it with all the best intentions. I'm also glad about the
results too by the way. Saying that, I still would not forced someone to
sin.
Kelly

Who's declaring what constitutes a 'sin'?

If not 'sinning' for one group requires each man keeping 40 subjugated wives
[and killing or driving out the extra men who might be upset at all the women
being taken] and the law and society prevent them from doing that.
Forcing them to live in the bounds of society, forcing them to 'sin'...

Then you would oppose that?

If you don't, then you just allowed anyone to get around any law by creating a
religious objection to being made to follow that law?

If you do, then what method do you use to determine that their version of sin is
unacceptable, but [for example] yours is acceptable?

Originally posted by googlefudge
Who's declaring what constitutes a 'sin'?

If not 'sinning' for one group requires each man keeping 40 subjugated wives
[and killing or driving out the extra men who might be upset at all the women
being taken] and the law and society prevent them from doing that.
Forcing them to live in the bounds of society, forcing them to 'sin'...

Then you ...[text shortened]... to determine that their version of sin is
unacceptable, but [for example] yours is acceptable?

I believe sin comes in a couple of forms, one is a direct action or inaction
against God's will, the other is against our own. Our own would be if I
cannot in good faith eat meat and I do I sin against my self, if I condemn
someone for stealing and I steal I'm condemned not only by God's Word on
stealing, but also by my own condemnation against one who steals because
I acknowledged it when I condemn another.

So if you believe you can have 40 wives and God says otherwise, you will
be condemn by God. Now if God is silent on any matter and you say this
is the way, and you go against it, again you've condemned yourself.

Judge not...
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Right, is what God lays out before us. Our laws are what we lay out before
us. If you wish to tell me that you feel comfortable causing someone else
to sin, than do so. I don't feel that way.

With our legal system they did what they did, and those that acted I'm
quite sure did it with all the best intentions. I'm also glad about the
results too by the way. Saying that, I still would not forced someone to
sin.
Kelly

are you telling us that you were a virgin on your wedding day? i aint buying that.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
are you telling us that you were a virgin on your wedding day? i aint buying that.

What are you talking about?
I did not say that, and if I did how would you know I was telling the truth?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
What are you talking about?
I did not say that, and if I did how would you know I was telling the truth?
Kelly

you said you were not comfortable causing others to sin........either you waited until you were married or you caused somebody to sin, which was it? how old were you when you got married???

of course we dont know if you are telling the truth, but we never really do with any of us when we communicate online. we just have to have faith.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Right, is what God lays out before us. Our laws are what we lay out before
us. If you wish to tell me that you feel comfortable causing someone else
to sin, than do so. I don't feel that way.

With our legal system they did what they did, and those that acted I'm
quite sure did it with all the best intentions. I'm also glad about the
results too by the way. Saying that, I still would not forced someone to
sin.
Kelly

There you go again, avoiding the issue and talking in generalities.

Do you think the authorities were right to prevent the parents allowing their daughter to die?

It's a simple question that you seem to want to wrap up in layers of what ifs and dubious biblical caveats.

Originally posted by divegeester
There you go again, avoiding the issue and talking in generalities.

Do you think the authorities were right to prevent the parents allowing their daughter to die?

It's a simple question that you seem to want to wrap up in layers of what ifs and dubious biblical caveats.

No I don't think it was right to go against the parents wishes. We are
either free to live our lives as we see fit or not. We are free to avoid
sinning against God or we can forced to sin against him because the
states wants it that way. This I believe even if I disagree with the
things that people want to do or avoid, if it isn't going against God's
Word it isn't my call it is theirs.
Kelly

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Finally the truth comes out. Thanks.

The truth is always important.

Life is more important than religion.
Anyone can commit suicide if they decide that transfusion is worse than death. But children must be protected from their parents if the parents forbid a transfusion to save life.

People are, sometimes, advised to pray instead of go to a doctor.
Religion kills, sometimes.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
you said you were not comfortable causing others to sin........either you waited until you were married or you caused somebody to sin, which was it? how old were you when you got married???

of course we dont know if you are telling the truth, but we never really do with any of us when we communicate online. we just have to have faith.

You are brain dead if you think I'm going to bring my wife/family into this
or any other discussion.

I have been telling you the truth about sin, and if you are asking if I
have sinned the answer will be yes. If you are asking me if I have
caused others to sin, I'd have to admit, more than likely.

I like every person on the planet sins and if we are not careful will also
lead others astray. We live in a world steeped in sin, we are all sinners
and that is why we need Jesus Christ, because on our own we all fall
short. That said, it is sin we are to avoid, we are follow after God and
repent of our sins.

If you are asking me on my own, do I feel like I'm righteous in my own
right to talk to anyone about how they should live, my answer would be
no.
Kelly

Originally posted by FabianFnas
The truth is always important.

Life is more important than religion.
Anyone can commit suicide if they decide that transfusion is worse than death. But children must be protected from their parents if the parents forbid a transfusion to save life.

People are, sometimes, advised to pray instead of go to a doctor.
Religion kills, sometimes.

Are you aware of Vivia Perpetua? She was a young women put to death in the amphitheaters of the Romans. She became a Christian through her servant preaching to her. As was common in those days she was brought before the city magistrate profession of Christianity being a capital crime and offered the opportunity to offer up incense to an effigy of the emperor, a simple procedure which would have secured her freedom and her life. Her father and family who were not Christians and her husband were also brought before her in an attempt to make her recant her faith and yet she refused.

If life is more important than a religious principle why do you think she never choose to offer up incense to an effigy of the emperor? The simple truth is that to do so would be a betrayal of what she believed in, a betrayal of who she was and she was not prepared to compromise.

A similar position faced Jehovah's witnesses in the Nazi concentration camps, they could simply sign a piece of paper and relinquish their faith and gain freedom, thousands went to their death rather than compromise, why do you think that is? Its for the same reason, to do so would be a betrayal of their convictions and principles.

Death holds no lasting terror for the Christian, its simply a sleep from which they shall awaken in the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous, God has furnished a guarantee in that he has resurrected a a man, Jesus Christ and he will likewise do so to countless millions in the future. This is the very basis of Christianity and no temporary promise of a reprieve or some betrayal of principle can negate it.

So no, life is not more precious than religion, for religion is able to transcend the fear of death.

"When I was still with my companions, and my father, in his affection for me, was trying to turn me from my purpose by arguments and thus weaken my faith, 'Father,' said I, 'do you see this vessel-water pot or whatever it may be? Can it be called by any other name than what it is?' 'No,' he replied. 'So also I cannot call myself by any other name than what I am-a Christian.' Then my father provoked at the word 'Christian' threw himself upon me as if he would pluck out my eyes, but he only shook me and in fact he was vanquished.

"Another day, whilst we were taking our meal, we were suddenly summoned to be examined and we arrived at the marketplace. The news of this soon spread and brought a vast crowd together. We were placed on a platform before the judge, who was Hilarian, procurator of the province, the proconsul being lately dead. The rest, who were questioned before me, confessed their faith. When it came to my turn, my father appeared with my baby, and drawing me down from the step besought me, 'Have pity on your child.' The president Hilarian joined with my father and said, 'Spare your father's white hairs: spare the tender years of your child. Offer a sacrifice for the prosperity of the emperors.' I replied, 'No.' 'Are you a Christian?' asked Hilarian. And I answered, 'Yes, I am.'

http://secretplaceseries.com/Support/Testimonies/V_Perpetua1.html

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

A similar position faced Jehovah's witnesses in the Nazi concentration camps, they could simply sign a piece of paper and relinquish their faith and gain freedom, thousands went to their death rather than compromise, why do you think that is? Its for the same reason, to do so would be a betrayal of their convictions and principles.

Signing a piece of paper under extortion would not have meant they had "relinquished their faith". It would not have been "a betrayal of their convictions and principles". What a peculiar notion to invest in an inanimate object like some ink on paper. Was their faith something so affected and brittle that it could be "relinquished" by a signature? I see nothing wrong with lying to someone who is threatening to kill you or your family.