Originally posted by sonhouse
Again with the 'now you think you know the mind of god' card. For you it's perfectly acceptable for there to be literally millions of deaths, children tortured and killed because it will all be better by and by.

For me that is abhorrent in the extreme, the slaughter of children, women, old men, all in the name of religion is, I can't even think of a pro ...[text shortened]... urge to ever have hit the human race, more deaths because of that than all the plagues on Earth.

I do not know the mind of God, simply declaring what is written about Him unlike you who
admittedly is making up what you think a god could or couldn't do and then make your
argument for it.

You also blame God for things people do, as if people's beliefs about God means that
these children would not have died. All of your arguments against God come from how
you think god would or would not do which are meaningless as far as I'm concern.

When you start blaming people for the things people do you'd lose all your complaints
against God.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I do not know the mind of God, simply declaring what is written about Him unlike you who
admittedly is making up what you think a god could or couldn't do and then make your
argument for it.

You also blame God for things people do, as if people's beliefs about God means that
these children would not have died. All of your arguments against God come fr ...[text shortened]... n you start blaming people for the things people do you'd lose all your complaints
against God.

My complaints are against those who invented the Abrahamic religions in the first place. Mankind is very good at writing pithy sayings and stories if you hadn't noticed.

Mankind is quite capable of inventing any sort of god which they already have hundreds of times.

You would never deny mankind has invented gods.

You just refuse to even think some obscure middle Eastern tribe could possibly have invented the Abrahamic one, which, when you think about it, was originally for one group of people not the entire planet. It was only when Christianity came about, rather it should be called Paulanity, they wanted the world converted.
But this oh so gracious lord you worship hasn't helped the world of humans mature in the slightest. We are just as savage as when the first Abrahamics developed their religion and writing down their pithy sayings and stories pretending a god inspired them.

I have no doubt the CONCEPT of a god inspired them, writing about things as if a god was involved but they didn't need a god for any of it.

A real god would not have said the things it supposedly said, like I am a jealous god, a man is worth 50 shekels but a woman only 30. Sayings like that are 100% human thoughts, men who want to be on top of the social totem pole.

I can't have complaints about your god or God, I only have complaints about the originators, the humans of the middle eastern tribe who made all of that stuff up.

You say you don't know if the universe is 14 billion years old or not so there is doubt in your mind about Genesis AT LEAST.

You should carry that doubt to the entire religion.

Originally posted by sonhouse
My complaints are against those who invented the Abrahamic religions in the first place. Mankind is very good at writing pithy sayings and stories if you hadn't noticed.

Mankind is quite capable of inventing any sort of god which they already have hundreds of times.

You would never deny mankind has invented gods.

You just refuse to even think some ...[text shortened]... ubt in your mind about Genesis AT LEAST.

You should carry that doubt to the entire religion.

I have no doubt there are people who make up god as they go along. That does not mean that
there is a real Lord God Almighty, it only means that that are some who make things up as
they go along.

Mankind justifies so many things almost all of our bad behavior we have some pitiful
excuse why our actions, words, or lack there of is justified. Again none of that does away
with reality, it only shows how broken we are.

I still don't see why you bother telling me what a real god would do while you deny there
is one.

I have faith about my beliefs, not one thing am I a 100% about there is always room for
error and doubt. Yet, I do believe, my life has been changed from what I was before I have
become a Christian till now. I didn't grow up in church, I didn't attend church the first 25
years of my life, and when I got saved my life was altered forever. Can I prove what
happen to me was real, no, but again it is faith.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
You think its beyond Gods ability to create a version of Humanity with the characteristics he requires that wouldn't have 'dumb asses' in it?

We are human. We err.

What you describe is angels, who, btw, do not have free will.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Of course not. A belief that doesn't force the world to be 6000 years old but to be as it really is, 4 odd billion years old and a universe 10 billion years older cannot be refuted by science. So if someone believes a god or a God, take your pick, did it or if it was the result of much larger forces than our universe at play, I can't argue against it. It is ...[text shortened]... l way to live.

It's just so abysmally sad half the human race believes the scam of religion.

There is only one way to transcend this plane and take our rightful place, beyond the reach of powers that would see us fall, and that way is love. There is only one religion that is wholly about love.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I never said there is no god. How can I, a mere human blithely assert in this incredible universe and maybe even an infinity of universes, there is no possibility of a god?
I ALWAYS said there is no bible god, the Abrahamic god is a travesty, the worse scourge to ever have hit the human race, more deaths because of that than all the plagues on Earth.

No, no, NO.

The deaths on this planet are not because of God, or even religion.

They are because Godless men decide to fight over earthly reward.

Originally posted by Suzianne
We are human. We err.

What you describe is angels, who, btw, do not have free will.

I believe they have free will, other wise how could a 1/3 of them fall?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe they have free will, other wise how could a 1/3 of them fall?

They don't have anywhere to go with 'free will'. They exist to serve God. When they exercise free will, what form do you think this takes? They stop serving God. They fall. Realistically, they have no free will except to choose to fall from grace.

It is not like human free will, because we can choose to follow God. Our exercise of free will does not mean we necessarily fall. It can save us. Angels already exist in a state of grace because they do not have free will. To exercise free will, they must give up grace. This is not free will as we know it.

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, no, NO.

The deaths on this planet are not because of God, or even religion.

They are because Godless men decide to fight over earthly reward.

Then tell me why your allegedly gracefull loving god doesn't step in to stop the slaughter of millions?

Originally posted by Suzianne
They don't have anywhere to go with 'free will'. They exist to serve God. When they exercise free will, what form do you think this takes? They stop serving God. They fall. Realistically, they have no free will except to choose to fall from grace.

It is not like human free will, because we can choose to follow God. Our exercise of free will does n ...[text shortened]... ree will. To exercise free will, they must give up grace. This is not free will as we know it.

I think we disagree, simply because I choose to follow God does not negate my freewill it
only means I've made up my mind to follow God. The option is still there, because it isn't
one I would choose doesn't make my ability to choose it void.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think we disagree, simply because I choose to follow God does not negate my freewill it
only means I've made up my mind to follow God. The option is still there, because it isn't
one I would choose doesn't make my ability to choose it void.

How would you know if the choices you make are the result of free will or programming?

You decide to go get a burger, halfway there, you decide, nah, I need a hairdo instead.

Is that free will or programming?

Originally posted by sonhouse
How would you know if the choices you make are the result of free will or programming?

You decide to go get a burger, halfway there, you decide, nah, I need a hairdo instead.

Is that free will or programming?

Good question, the truth is either we are walking out our lives as if we were people in a book
and were given a script, we are robots programmed, or we have choices. I believe we have
choices otherwise there would be no need for a judgment day. I do believe God is good and
I start there with His making of the universe and maintaining it. I do believe when I see love
between people and love between us and God that is the best thing there is in this life
time. The hatefulness that goes on between us even though it is a choice we make never
seems good, it is almost always misplaced. So when I read that God is love, it just makes
sense to me.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Good question, the truth is either we are walking out our lives as if we were people in a book
and were given a script, we are robots programmed, or we have choices. I believe we have
choices otherwise there would be no need for a judgment day. I do believe God is good and
I start there with His making of the universe and maintaining it. I do believe whe ...[text shortened]... ood, it is almost always misplaced. So when I read that God is love, it just makes
sense to me.

Why would there be a judgement day when your alleged omniscient god, er, God, knew the placement of every atom in the universe past present and future and therefore knows exactly who is naughty and who is nice, even before he created the universe (according to your mythology).

So again, your god would not have needed a judgement day. As if it wouldn't know exactly who was a perp and who was a saint. If it is omniscient, it already knows and doesn't need a judgement.

Same as all the other 'tests', Ab killing his son, Adam and Eve and the "apple' and all the rest.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Why would there be a judgement day when your alleged omniscient god, er, God, knew the placement of every atom in the universe past present and future and therefore knows exactly who is naughty and who is nice, even before he created the universe (according to your mythology).

So again, your god would not have needed a judgement day. As if it wouldn't kn ...[text shortened]... ame as all the other 'tests', Ab killing his son, Adam and Eve and the "apple' and all the rest.

My personal view is judgement isn't for God as much as for all creation to see the truth of God's judgement, which is why we are called witnesses.

Originally posted by KellyJay
My personal view is judgement isn't for God as much as for all creation to see the truth of God's judgement, which is why we are called witnesses.

A personal email to each of us from God's comm would do the same, but that never happens so we have to rely on man made judgement day to simulate what a god could do in an instant.